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historical photos

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 03:50:14 AM EST
This photo is self explanatory.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 03:54:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is a view from under the Pont de Grenelle (hard by Jerome's place) upriver to what was then called the Pont de Passy (suitably decorated with arches for the occasion). So the colourful pavilions by the river would be on the long island a number of us have strolled along on ET meet-ups, on our way to that funny towaer in the background.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:20:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Postcards of the 1937 Paris Expo:

The exposition was dominated by the monster pavilions, facing off against each other, of Nazi Germany (left) and the Soviet Union (right).

Picture taken from the Palais de Chaillot (Trocadéro).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:28:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:30:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:32:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They both look like that Mussolini architecture.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:44:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well... Speer after this "glorious design", did help to conceive the "final solution"...! He is still felt as a stain in Architecture, even though the "mad scientist syndrome" could apply to a great number of egocentric architects !

It's, alas, not a new thing...
"Houses are built to live in and not to look on."
Essays, 45-Francis Bacon, 1561-1626


"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:53:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Five photos from the "1984" days of Petain.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 04:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Savoie" is mentioned in several propaganda posters as a "terrorist" state... :-)
Must have been about Oisans and Grésivaudan maquis !

Those have a look of underexposed Ektachromes. I must find some time to go to the gallery show...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 09:56:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
margouillat:
Those have a look of underexposed Ektachromes.

I could have made the colors more natural with photoshop, but I thought I should present them as exhibited.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:49:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no... It was more about what film could have been used in 1944 !
And maybe about restoration techniques :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could have made the colors more natural with photoshop, but I thought I should present them as exhibited.

I love the look of those pics. Don't photoshop!

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tzt) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The dark blue tint does reflect the bizarreness of the period, No?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 03:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do think I don't remember this blue tint was a strong on the projected photos - that maybe was caused by photographing a projection...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 07:03:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm going to post the rest of the photos that I took next week;  4 during the occupation, one of the liberation, and 4 just after the war. The first 5 all have a bluish tint, which might indicate that only a certain kind of film (agfa?) was available during the war.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 09:58:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No doubt Agfa, I don't see who would have been using Kodacolor in occupied France. There are some photos here by a wartime photographer who says (and you can see them) the photos he took on Agfa film were bluish.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lep: good idea, I would like to see those !
afew: I agree but then Agfa changed a lot after the war !

The trouble in typing slowly is that the answers are already there when you manage to post !!!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know if you saw the photo blogs from the previous  two weeks. I posted about 17 photos of Paris from 1907 to 1920.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 11:14:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should have been Agfacolor or Kodacolor in those times or Kodachrome or again Ektachrome as those were around for some time...
Ekta has a blue dominance while the three others were inspired by the Lumière's Autochrome and had (and still have for some) a magenta tint !

I was just wondering what sort of film one could get in Paris in 1944... I would think it to be Agfacolor  and the blue being a restoration density artefact !

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:03:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Were you responding to me but didn't know it?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:08:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well... To linca and you... And also to myself, maybe also to afew who overexposed one picture to decipher the billboards..! :-)

While B&W chemicals were easy to find, color negatives or slides would have been quite a problem to get right in those times (unless you belonged to some propaganda staff or military photographer)!

Just musing around !

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:23:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The exhibition explained there were two sets of color photographs from the Paris Occupation ; a French photographer working for the French collaborationist press, who also shot the Paris liberation and got his professional card revoked after the war, and a German technician who was fond of photographing women ;)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 12:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
aybe we can go back in February. You take some notes and I try to shoot some more photos without being arrested. the we can do a proper diary.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 12:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's lighten this one up:

Following the pavilion face-off at the Paris Expo higher upthread, here we have the face-off in the posters during the war in, apparently, Nice (see above hoarding).

On the left, the Nazis were of course fighting terra. The Reds were guilty of Katyn, Vinnitza (I don't know what happened there except it's a Ukrainian town that was nastily visited by the SS Einsatzgruppen...), and the Haute Savoie (as margouillat notes), probably because of maquis activity.

What is the adjectif after "TERRORISME" that is hidden by the passer-by? Sibérien? ???

To the right, we have the good guys who are out in the snow fighting terra: the F that is visible is the end of LVF, the Légion des Volontaires Français, a French Kollabo volunteer unit that fought on the Eastern front. There were not many volunteers.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh. STALINIEN...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:05:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you call me ? :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:15:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not many volunteers, but many poor alsatians kids that were dragged into it, more so at the end of the war...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, though they weren't in the LVF as far as I know, but in the Waffen-SS or the Wehrmacht (see Malgré-nous).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably could've attracted more collabos for the eastern front if they had thought to give them gloves...

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 12:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vinnitza (I don't know what happened there except it's a Ukrainian town that was nastily visited by the SS Einsatzgruppen...)

One location during Stalin's Great Terror, exhumed and propagandised by the SS while they filled their own mass graves nearby. Read it here.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 01:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, it's a different spelling that Wikipedia didn't bring up for me.

I never fail to be surprised by how sensitive the Nazis were to "atrocity propaganda". That is, they flogged it for all it was worth against the Soviets, but also claimed Jewish complaints about bad treatment before the war were invented. What I'm thinking is that they were aware of the damage it could cause to others and to them if massacres and atrocities were publicised, yet the Allies (West™) always fought shy of using their knowledge of Nazi atrocities (of organised mass murder by the end of 1942) and never fully used it as a propaganda weapon.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 08:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah Hum...Modern day propaganda seems just similar...?

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Propaganda on both sides in WWII was extremely sophisticated. Here's the example from before the war that I was thinking of: the Nazis deflecting attention from reports of growing discrimination against and mistreatment of Jews.

I'd seen the same poster in a different setting. It calls on good Germans to fight die jüdische Creuelpropaganda by buying in German (non-Jewish) shops. A good German lady looks on. The photo tells the story of what good Germans should be doing, etc -- addressed ostensibly, therefore, to a German public.

Er, but what's wrong with that analysis?

Why is the message translated into English?

For which public is the photo (and others like it) really intended? I'd say British and particularly American. The keywords are "Jewish atrocity propaganda". There had been false atrocity propaganda during WWI, and the Nazis were cashing in on it by suggesting Jewish claims of mistreatment were bogus. Muddying the waters...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:42:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Calomniez, calomniez, il en restera toujours quelque chose" (Francis Bacon

The english part of the picture is indeed surprising ! The fact that it isn't in french too, would aim more at the US then at UK (as after all the french were supposed to be "ze" great military power in the neighborhood)?

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:56:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A photo of a placque on a college (jr. high school) in the 18th of Paris. One sees these all over Paris.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 07:20:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's another example, a photo I took last August in Paris 18th.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 11:29:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
to Samuel Beckett.



Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 08:41:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Normandy - remnants of D-Day

arrom-beach-people-s

Belle Epoque and bloody epoch:

arrom-belle-epoque-s

Montaubon - history pageant - the Revolution. It's also the birthplace of Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a leader of the May 68 demonstrators:

montaub-rev-s-lum-s2

Montaubon

In 1360, at the Treaty of Brétigny, it was ceded to the English; they were expelled by the inhabitants in 1414. [muttering: "We'll be back - wait till the UK house price inflation".]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montauban

montaubon-s-lum-s

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 08:43:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

More nice photos and fascinating historical facts in my Florence diary :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 08:49:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here are a few shots I've taken over the last 6 months...

Memorial plaque, Berlin

DDR monument, Berlin

Early Benz invention, Stuttgart

From inside the Deutscher Dome, Berlin

From inside the Deutscher Dome, Berlin

Painting from the Alte Deutsche Kunst Museum

Painting from the Alte Deutsche Kunst Museum

Painting from the Alte Deutsche Kunst Museum

Painting from the Alte Deutsche Kunst Museum

Windmill, Potsdam

From the Pergamon, Berlin

From the Pergamon, Berlin

Soviet space suit, ESA Astronaut Training Center

Soviet space suit, ESA Astronaut Training Center

Soviet space suit, ESA Astronaut Training Center

He's not an object but he's historic! My grandfather...

by gioele (gioele(daught)sandler(aaaattttt)gmail(daught)kom) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 11:46:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
DDR monument, Berlin

No, that's the Soviet War Memorial, built by the Soviets themselves, which pre-dates the formation of East Germany (DDR) by four years.

Some might find it might interesting that there is one in Wienna, too, there called Soviet Heroes' Monument, and it's well-maintained. (Where the cruel irony is that many of those 'heroes' have, after the express approval of their generals, committed the two biggest rampages of mass rape after the taking of just these two cities.)



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 01:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These are historical in the sense that the places they reflect are not as they were in 1989 when these photos were taken, and in 1989 they were certainly different than they were in the 1970s when I first visited them. Both cities date to the Mayan classical period Circa 800AD. In 1970, Comalcalco was untouched.  My wife's archaeologist 1st cousin Ponciano Salazar Ortegon was the first to systematically excavate, restore and record information about Comalcalco. We visited him at the ruins before his death and he pulled out a carbon copy of his first manuscript and gave it to me (I still have it.) Pelenque was devoid of tourists when we visited in 1970.  Only an old groundskeeper was present.


Temple of the Inscriptions - Pelenque


Tomb of King Pakal the Great within the Temple of the Inscriptions


I believe this imposing structure is named "The Palace"


Some other structures at Pelenque


Largest pyramid at Comalcalco, western limit of the Mayan civilization. Constructed of mud bricks.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for posting Gringo. You always have most interesting photos.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As always, my pleasure.  I have plenty of photos left, just need to keep scanning.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 10:03:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My 3 favourites.






by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:27:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The last one triggers memories... :-)
But mines were in India between Darjeeling and Kalimpong...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...now you have to re-post the picture in the picture too, and I hope de Gondi will see it...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 06:11:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is your detail scan of the picture on the wall:

As I told last time you posted it, it was damn familiar for me. Of course it was -- I was there!

But it is not in Italy. Just North of it: Brig, Switzerland, the Stockalper Castle and the College Church, with the Riederhorn in the background:

Webcam with the Stockalper Castle:

I had a suspicion about Switzerland, because those special arm-rests for wooden seats are a 'luxury' I'd expect only there, and indeed now I found  a picture of a former SBB 3rd class wooden interior:

So if the inscription above the door is "Don't smoke" in Italian,  Fran was right, and this was somewhere in the Italian part of Switzerland at the end of WWII.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 06:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When are you supposed to join the serial "the experts" team...? :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 07:06:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
? Is that a TV show?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 07:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah yes, I should have thought that it's the french title..
It should go as CSI  in an international fashion !

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 09:56:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, still difficult reference because I don't watch it (eyes glaze over in 10 seconds), but I know it's about murder scene evidence analysts. Fortunately, no murder involved in my investigations :-)

BTW, another modern picture of Brig with a better (but still valley-bottom) view of the church to the right of the castle:



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:13:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Impressive! And you have your weekend back now :)
Wow. I really am impressed, well done.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 07:10:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've a scanning job to do. I now have my great-grandma's photo collection. Plenty of photos from the early 1900's, some even from late 1800's and some from the Finnish Civil War (1918). Very sadly my great-grandma's sight failed years before she passed away in 2000 and we never got round to putting names to all the people in the photos. We tried once, sitting at her tiny kitchen table, I describing the pictures and she trying to remember who was who - she could not see the photos anymore but was able to remember them still quite well. Still, many of the photos remained unrecognized.

So if you have historical family photos and someone who remembers who is in them and what the occasion was, do write it down! One day you'll probably want to know; it's family history...

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tzt) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 05:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I've been through that (and still do ), but happily most of the prints have penciled who, what, where and when...

The trouble is that sometimes the "who" doesn't even ring a bell to the matriarch (95 years old mother)... Who jokingly evacuates the problem by saying it must have been her/his lover/mistress... Which usually sends a chilling return glance from that part of the family :-)

Those were the times... :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Jan 25th, 2008 at 06:33:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My maternal grandparents. My grandfather died in Belgium during WWI, my grandmother in the flu pandemic of 1918 which caused the death of 50 million people.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 10:53:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That photo reminds me that my mother would have been 100 years old yesterday.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 11:18:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are only a year older than my Dad. His Mother will be celebrating her 100th in 4 weeks time.

It's a big year for birthdays in our family - my gran, 100; my dad, 70; my sister, 45; me, 30.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 11:38:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's hope you have your gramma's genes.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 11:53:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My father's mother died in the 1918 flu pandemic, too...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 05:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I bet everyone has relatives who died in it. I think it was two great-grandmothers for me.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2008 at 05:48:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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