Super Tuesday looms: Who is really going to win the Presidency? (Part 5) | 75 comments (75 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

And why not? (4.00 / 2)

European Tribune - Super Tuesday looms: Who is really going to win the Presidency? (Part 5)

but I will be amazed if a "non-Christian" wins the Republican nomination

And why not?

by Mordecai on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 07:40:51 AM EST

Re: And why not? (4.00 / 2)

I'm a little more surprised at the classification of Romney as "non-Christian". The official name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 07:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (none / 1)

It occupies sort of a weird in-between space in the minds of most Americans, though. Not really another religion, but not really Christianity. For starters: Remember, Christian Jesus was from the Middle East. Mormon Jesus was from Albany. Christian Jesus believed in loving thy neighbor. Mormon Jesus thought -- until 1978, when the IRS looked like it might take his tax exemption away -- blacks could only get into Heaven as slaves.

So let's be honest: They are quite different in many ways.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 11:51:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (none / 0)

Because such a large and active part of the Republican base are Evangelicals who don't appear to regard Mormons as "proper Christians" - although this could change as he is certainly appealing to their social conservatism despite his record as Governor of a very liberal state.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 07:55:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (none / 1)

Well, Huckabee did try to play the "my God is bigger than his god" card once.

We're once again touching in the "voting is tribal" theme, in this case that the Evangelical Christian base will only come out in support of the Republicans if the nominee is "one of 'them'".

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 07:59:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (none / 0)

Well, to be fair, Huckabee has only won one contest. I have to admit that I'm quite surprised by that. Losing New Hampshire was a given, since New Hampshire Republicans are a little different from South Carolina Republicans, but I think there is some evidence to suggest the Evangelicals vote on a few more things than we commonly believe.

Or maybe they just thought Huckabee couldn't win. Who knows?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 11:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (4.00 / 2)

So you are saying a Jew like Joe Lieberman can't be elected President?

by Mordecai on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 08:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (none / 0)

Hasn't been so far, but then they said a Catholic couldn't be elected until JFK broke that barrier. I'm surprised Joe Lieberman didn't run, given his high national profile and centrist almost non-party positioning. Perhaps his private polls were telling him he didn't have a chance in a Democratic primary season where Iraq was such a negative issue...

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 08:20:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Frank (none / 1)

was only talking about the political chances within the Republican camp in today's context. I don't think he said anything more general than that.

Given today's strong organisation and mobilisation of Christian evangelicals within the Republican party, his point is certainly arguable. It may be noted that these groups are often strongly pro-Israel - although I would not dare comment as to what this means of their position on Jews in US politics, not undertanding their positions well enough in that respect.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 08:46:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frank (none / 0)

I would not dare comment as to what this means of their position on Jews in US politics, not undertanding their positions well enough in that respect.

Well that says a huge amount in and of itself...

_{aspiring to genteel poverty}

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 08:49:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What does it say? (none / 1)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 09:09:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does it say? (none / 1)

It implies that this group may potentially refuse or endorse candidates based on religious belief. You don't have the confidence to say that they vote based on policy. It harkens back to the question of whether an atheist could be president of the United States. It says nothing about Jews in particular though.

_{aspiring to genteel poverty}

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 09:35:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ah, understood (none / 1)

Well, I didn't feel like I was going out on a limb in saying that this group (Christian evangelicals) care a lot about religion and religion-linked topics (whether that link is artificial or not is yet another issue).

But the distate for atheists seems to run deeper in the US than only with the Evangelicals - not even a Dem atheist might get nominated.

The differences between the US and Europe on religion are very real - and even bigger with France, which has, for historical reasons, a strong secular bent.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 09:56:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah, understood (none / 1)

The really interesting question is how Evangelicals came to become so pro-Zionist, given their history of anti-Semitism. A lot of this seems to be not for love of Israel or Jews, per se, but because they see the re-establishment of Israel as the fulfilling of a biblical prophesy required before Armageddon and the Second Coming can happen. The evangelical paradigm is not geared to a notion of historical progress, but rather of sinful man seriously screwing up and needing to be rescued from his own folly by divine intervention and providence. The Pope Benedict critique of "modernism" as a peculiarly atheistic conceit that man is the author of his own destiny appears to be similar. I don't know enough about Mormonism to be able to comment on whether it also adopts a similar paradigm.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 10:08:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And why not? (none / 0)

Welcome to European Tribune, Mordecai!

I'm looking forward to reading many comments and diaries from you...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 11:44:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Super Tuesday looms: Who is really going to win the Presidency? (Part 5) | 75 comments (75 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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