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I wonder at what point in history the focus shifted from the physical boundaries to the political boundaries. I was thinking that I wanted to see a map showing the terrain and the Danube - and Ybbs, of course. Because at the time of the Ottoman invasion, the movement of people was like water - gravitational, following also the gravitationally influenced roads and the gravitational rivers.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 at 01:29:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Check with Google Maps! They now have relief map, too.

The bands reaching Ybbs must have had to cross the Northernmost chain of the Alps as they joined the rest of the Ottoman army. The main body, too, had to pass through a pass (though only c. 700 m above sea).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 at 02:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...and, er, I don't know on what route they reached Ybbs -- bypassing Vienna along the Danube, or crossing the Wienerwald mountains above Vienna.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 at 02:37:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not so sure boundaries were ever all that physical, since the end of the Roman Empire. For much of the middle ages, they did not exist fully - nobles ruling near the boundaries of two kings' zones of influence would quite regularly switch allegiance. Maps of "France" in the middle ages usually show a few enclaves. Land was more property than nation or state at the time...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 at 05:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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