Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
I'm not denying a problem this year...

I shall again emphasize too that the foreign-denominated loan problem just came out of the blue for me, I was totally unaware, don't even know anyone who took such a loan. A speculation bubble there could very well have caused the Forint appreciation in the first half of this year (which, BTW, wasn't looked at kindly by the Central Bank at the time).

Is it possible that the Euro is going up against the CEE currencies because Eurozone banks are repatriating capital in order to shore up their balance sheets?

Could be, but the credit crunch, when jittery investors just draw back to safe havens must be a factor, too (also see CEE stock exchanges).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 09:18:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Forint appreciation in the first half of this year (which, BTW, wasn't looked at kindly by the Central Bank at the time).

As discussed in earlier threads here on ET, the Government can always keep its own currency down if it wishes - by accumulating foreign reserves (in this case Euro and Swiss Franc).

Ultimately it seems as though governments should do just that, accumulating reserves in an amount sufficient to cover the foreign loans that its population/businesses take out.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 09:57:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Op-Ed Columnist - The Widening Gyre - NYTimes.com

Some of these disasters were more or less anticipated. Economists have wondered for some time why hedge funds weren't suffering more amid the financial carnage. They need wonder no longer: investors are pulling their money out of these funds, forcing fund managers to raise cash with fire sales of stocks and other assets.

The really shocking thing, however, is the way the crisis is spreading to emerging markets -- countries like Russia, Korea and Brazil.

These countries were at the core of the last global financial crisis, in the late 1990s (which seemed like a big deal at the time, but was a day at the beach compared with what we're going through now). They responded to that experience by building up huge war chests of dollars and euros, which were supposed to protect them in the event of any future emergency. And not long ago everyone was talking about "decoupling," the supposed ability of emerging market economies to keep growing even if the United States fell into recession. "Decoupling is no myth," The Economist assured its readers back in March. "Indeed, it may yet save the world economy."

That was then. Now the emerging markets are in big trouble. In fact, says Stephen Jen, the chief currency economist at Morgan Stanley, the "hard landing" in emerging markets may become the "second epicenter" of the global crisis. (U.S. financial markets were the first.)

What happened? In the 1990s, emerging market governments were vulnerable because they had made a habit of borrowing abroad; when the inflow of dollars dried up, they were pushed to the brink. Since then they have been careful to borrow mainly in domestic markets, while building up lots of dollar reserves. But all their caution was undone by the private sector's obliviousness to risk.

In Russia, for example, banks and corporations rushed to borrow abroad, because dollar interest rates were lower than ruble rates. So while the Russian government was accumulating an impressive hoard of foreign exchange, Russian corporations and banks were running up equally impressive foreign debts. Now their credit lines have been cut off, and they're in desperate straits.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:01:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Russia, for example, banks and corporations rushed to borrow abroad, because dollar interest rates were lower than ruble rates. So while the Russian government was accumulating an impressive hoard of foreign exchange, Russian corporations and banks were running up equally impressive foreign debts. Now their credit lines have been cut off, and they're in desperate straits.

Gah - speechless.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:06:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
naked capitalism

A big reason for the worsening of mood in Japan is that its banks, which have heretofore looked solid by global standards, are suddenly looking as if they too might need to raise capital. The reason? Japanese banks, a legacy of the zaibatsu days, hold substantial equity positions in other companies (note these stockholdings are much smaller than they were in the bubble years, when banks were important members of industrial groupings, later called keiretsu as the linkages weakened). The BIS, in a concession to this Japanese peculiarity, allowed a portion of the value of these shares to be counted towards regulatory capital requirements (forgive me for not checking the current rules, but it used to be 50%).
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:16:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good cath. In CEE, too, the foreign-denominated loan problem is not one of public finances but consumers'.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 04:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From what I know, that's just what the Central Bank did.

BTW, here is a direct comparison courtesy of the Hungarian Central Bank (pdf!) -- what can you make of it?

Maybe we should do a Socratic Economics on this. I can't promise much understanding, but I can get you all kinds of graphs and data from the Hungarian Central bank and the statistical office.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 04:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is the graph that says it all -- development of net household credit uptake:

Thick grey: total, thin grey: consumption and other credit, red: housing credit in Forints, green: in forex

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 05:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting that it started before EU accession... What is meant by "housing credit"?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 07:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A broader term that includes all kinds of credits given for buying houses. I translated the Hungarian word literally because I'm not sure how much of that is covered by the Anglo terminology of "mortgage": say if the cover is not the house but having a fixed income and paying for 30% of the house price from the pocket, is that a mortgage?

It started before EU accession probably in the form of delayed payment credits.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 05:33:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lets just say 'real estate credit' to avoid 'mortgage'. It is shocking that the domestic credit has gone negative.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 06:47:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Since real estate would include commercial interests, too, what about homeowner credit?

As for domestic-denominated credit going negative, what does that mean at all? Interest payments, or (early) repayments (refinancing)?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 07:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, this is 'household credit after all' - but a precise term is a bit beside the point.

I have no idea how net debt can be negative - as it has been since 2006.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 10:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you mean housing or household?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 04:07:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I used both, and both appropiately: the aggregate figure (thick grey line) is total credit for households, the two highlighted elements of it are credit to households for buying homes, e.g. housing credit.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 05:36:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So you're saying the foreign credit is mortgage credit?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 05:44:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not saying anything, but from the Central Bank's graph, it does indeed appear that foreign-denominated credit in the household sector is chiefly homeowner credit. (There are foreign-denominated credits in the commercial sector, too.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 07:55:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I can't make anything better than what would come out of a factor analysis...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 07:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display: