Toxic politics | 18 comments (18 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

We are the ones we've been waiting for (4.00 / 3)

European Tribune - Comments - Toxic politics

Where is leadership in Europe going to come from?

We are the change that we seek ;-)

...

On your diary, this seems to be a case of fraud. Industrial agriculture is obviously more vulnerable to fraud with large-scale consequences, although there are cases of fraud in organic agriculture, too. There are going to be questions about whether the monitoring system has been set up right, as you state. Certainly classifying the recycling plant as low risk seems to be a mistake, given what we know from the last dioxin scare in Belgium. Incedentally, this seems to have resulted in better monitoring there.

Mostly, though it is a matter of doing a thorough criminal investigation and throwing those who were involved in the fraud in jail, preferably for a long time, as well as confiscating their assets to idemnify to the largest extent possible those who have suffered damages as a result.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 01:45:00 PM EST

Re: nanne's quote box says it all for me. (none / 1)

After years of Bush and decades of crap, to finally feel that things could run in the proper direction is ... I don't know the words. If Obama starts being successful who in Europe is likely to follow his lead? Will new politicians need to rise? Is the establishment too far gone to change?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 02:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nanne's quote box says it all for me. (none / 1)

Much of what Obama proposes to do much of Europe has been doing anyway - wind energy, greater public health provision, climate change mitigation, public transport enhancement, human rights, multi-lateral diplomacy etc.

Those leaders most complicit in the Neo-con project - Blair, Aznar have gone, but some inclined that way - Berlusconi, Sarkozi, Kaczynski, Klaus - are still in power.

The bigger problem is where we go from here - the EU is near paralysed by the Lisbon impasse and by disagreements between Merkel and just about everyone else as to how to deal with the economic crisis.

The problem is not so much with leaders as with a lack of institutional capability to provide leadership amongst such a diverse set of 27 distinct polities and little common demos or direct electoral legitimacy..

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't like the sound of that. (none / 1)

I'm a problem solver and I don't see a solution. Does this mean that things will have to get much worse before people compromise and make things better, or will the problem solve itself over time, or ... what?

Good to hear that the US might be trying to catch up with the sanity of Europe.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 04:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't like the sound of that. (none / 1)

It mostly means that we have to boot out all the market fundies and neocons from positions of power.

If we manage to do that, we're in a position to quite possibly emerge as the dominant economic and cultural power on the planet - or at least in the Western Hemisphere.

If we don't boot them out, we're screwed. Our starting point is much better than that of the US in the early '80s, but no society can withstand a sustained onslaught of market fundamentalism for more than a couple of decades.

Europe isn't particularly special or exceptional, except inasmuch as we by the grace of good fortune have been endowed with a high-grade industrial infrastructure and strong labour unions. There is nothing inherent in European nature that prevents those things from being dismantled, just as there is nothing inherent in American nature that prevents the US from (re)building them.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Dec 13th, 2008 at 10:36:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Booting out the rich and powerful. (none / 1)

Should I hold my breath while I wait for that to happen? Or should I be doing something to get that to happen?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Dec 13th, 2008 at 10:46:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We are the ones we've been waiting for (4.00 / 2)

The chances of whoever substituted waste oil for food grade oil being caught may be reasonably high, although proving criminal intent may be a different matter. The likelihood is that he/she will have few assets and little appreciation of what consequences could have flowed from their actions.

The problem in today's world is that a relatively petty act can have huge consequences for very many people - and the taxpayer is their only hope for any kind of compensation. The "markets" cannot solve the problem because even if the offending company is closed down, their is no prospect of their being able to compensate those damaged by the episode.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We are the ones we've been waiting for (4.00 / 3)

Well, you can have an implicit intent in criminal negligence, which I think would apply, certainly if this was a business decision. These seem to be all larger businesses, so one of them probably had the fraud motive (I don't think it was a lone worker, but you never know).

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We are the ones we've been waiting for (none / 0)

As far as I am aware, the businesses concerned are quite small.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 03:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Toxic politics | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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