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No, it's not a joke. Think about it, there's going to be a lot of desperate people out there as food distribution collapses. Stranded Wind already did a dKos diary about the famine of 2009 that is terrifying in terms of the consequences of small neglects. Just imagine that writ large.

There will be need to grow your own food in an environment populated with a large number of well-armed itinerants.

I know I tend towards the dystopian in my viewpoints, but we are in a situation that needs aggressive management with a political cadre who believe in the abdication of all responsibility. Obama will not do what is needed, heck he's not even gonna do the minimum necessary to fix america if there was nothing looming on the horizon.

Buy defensible land. Buy guns. Pray.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 11:34:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Buy defensible land. Buy guns. Pray.

I'll ignore the "Pray" part; just something to say; nothing there.

"defensible land"; today, unless you are one of the ultrawealthy who can afford your own island or your own army, no such thing.  Sounds good but unrealistic.  I challenge you to go within a 100 mile radius of where you are right now and find "defensible land".

"guns" ... how primitive.  Why not rocks and spears?  This old technology isn't as effective as you would like to believe in this high-tech world.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 11:52:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I dunno.  Personally, I think one great argument against a massive DoD budget and a huge number of soldiers is the fact that, along with nukes (which are sort of a trump card as far as self-preservation goes), Americans own so many guns.  God help the poor bastards who ever try to invade us.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 07:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A better argument could be that no one is going to invade you with guns.

They'll invade you with media and with cheap trashy money for corrupt and greedy pols. The rednecks will be so proud of their guns they won't even notice that the war is over and that they're already thinking and doing what they're told to, even when it's not in their interest.

Not that this would ever happen in real life.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 08:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Touché.  But then I think you'd have to assume, to at least some degree, they were on the same side as the rich assholes here.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 09:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Go back to Helen's original comment that was the seed of my comment:

There will be need to grow your own food in an environment populated with a large number of well-armed itinerants.

I don't think she's talking about foreign invaders; she's talking about OUR OWN STARVING FELLOW CITIZENS!

I've heard this "love of guns" argument from a die-hard Repub years ago; I laughed at him.  GUNS!  Bah!

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 07:08:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've heard this "love of guns" argument from a die-hard Repub years ago; I laughed at him.  GUNS!  Bah!

I have never seen gun in real life and I thought we'll never need it ...until 1993 in Serbia. When collapse of "organized society" happened and poverty reached extremes. Then we had to buy gun in the middle of Belgrade. And others had too. Simple, family people had to sleep with a gun "under the pillow". And we were not rich or anything. We were just average people with some money saved for "rainy days" thank to the fact that we also had small business. And it was not that we were worrying about that money but more about staying alive in the middle of the collapse.
So never say never...
I really hope I am not destined to live it all over again...but I will not bet on it.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 07:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not saying it isn't possible in 2009 or 2010, but it's not showing up in food prices.  Inflation is still positive on them, but it has decelerated dramatically along with everything else.  They're moving towards deflation at a pretty stunning pace, especially when you consider the lag from changes in energy prices to changes in food prices (there's steep drops still to come).

If it were the case that the crops were failing to this extent, we should be seeing the opposite.

Again, I'm not saying he/she is wrong.  Maybe there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that in the nuances of agricultural economics.  (It's a messy field in the real world, as you know.)  By no stretch of the imagination am I an expert.  Maybe it hasn't worked through the market yet, or maybe it's simply a matter of farmers doing business with sufficiently powerful firms that can set prices and pummel the farmers.  (I doubt that, because, in the end, they can only beat down the farmers as low as the farmers can go while staying in business.)  But my first thought, reading Stranded Wind's diary and then checking the data, is, "Something doesn't make sense with that on a macro level."

Surfing the tubez a bit, the agro blogs and other indie news sites don't seem to be talking about it either, which obviously leaves me skeptical even setting aside the inflation data.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 07:35:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not saying it isn't possible in 2009 or 2010, but it's not showing up in food prices.

Here in Australia where things still are relatively benign it is starting to show on food prices. While you can buy a lot of new technology gadgets for peanuts today, food and electricity prices are going up lately.
And Australia is rich in food...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Thu Dec 18th, 2008 at 07:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding...

To be clear: I'm always happy to know we've got the family land in Jawjuh and kinfolk with enough guns and ammo to take Atlanta.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Dec 17th, 2008 at 07:41:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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