Wind exajoules | 25 comments (25 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Thanks for your comment (none / 1)

you can call it justified to make up for unpaid externalities but the incremental payment is support. Even Ren21 of France calls it support. Feed in tariffs are paying a subsidy for 20 years on renewable capacity that is installed.
5.3 billion is an older estimate from 2001 and the amount has gone up since then with a bigger program in Spain and other places.

Feed in tariff is an incentive structure that boosts the adoption of renewable energy through government legislation. The regional or national electricity utilities are obligated to buy renewable electricity (electricity generated from renewable sources such as solar photovoltaics, wind power, biomass, and geothermal power) at above market rates.

Feed in tariff presentation

Not just Germany but Spain and Denmark have big feed in tariff systems. Many other european countries and canada also have feed in tariff systems (they are just smaller programs)

Estimated impact on end use electricity prices (according to european commmission)
Between 4% and 5% for Germany and Spain
Around 15% for Denmark

Back in 2001: The Netherlands (more than EUR 1.5 billion), the UK (circa EUR 1.5 billion) and Germany (circa EUR 1.8 billion) provided substantial off -budget support to electricity consumption. The Feed in tariff support has gone up since then.

European Environment Agency figures in 2004 gave indicative estimates of total energy subsidies in the EU-15 for 2001: solid fuel (coal) EUR 13.0, oil & gas EUR 8.7, nuclear EUR 2.2, renewables EUR 5.3 billion.

Ren21 in France (pro-renewables) calls feed in tariffs support.
The European Environment Agency estimated at least $0.8 billion in on-budget support and $6 billion in offbudget support for renewable energy in Europe in 2001. A large share of the off-budget support was due to feed-in tariffs, with purchase obligations and competitive tendering representing other forms of off-budget support

by advancednano on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:43:34 PM EST
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Re: Thanks for your comment (none / 1)

5.3 billion is an older estimate from 2001 and the amount has gone up since then with a bigger program in Spain and other places.

Nah. Due to (1) the rise in the "market" price of electricity and (2) the reduction of the feed-in tariff rate, the surplus part of the feed-in tariff has actually gone down.

And you don't seem to get Jérôme's argument. The feed-in tariff support (yes it's support, you don't need to make such a fuss about a word) is in fixing the purchase price at an above-market price, and making purchase obligatory. But the extra cost for the consumer is NOT the total sum of money paid out under the feed-in tariff (which you quoted for 2001), but the total sum minus what the same amount of electricity costs at then current market prices.

The above is even a static picture. As shown by several studies in Germany (both modelling and practical), taking market mechanisms into account, it is actually the case that renewables brought to the market with feed-in tariffs can decrease prices: when there is a short-term shortage and spot prices shoot up, constant-priced renewables will reduce the price gains.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 06:33:15 PM EST
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Re: Thanks for your comment (none / 1)

So what are the corrected figures that are being proposed ?

The 3 billion Euro/year figure from Jerome.
40 billion kwh X 3 cents per kwh. 1.2 billion.
It only had Germany and not the Spain and Denmark subsidies. Spain and Denmark combined have about the same wind as Germany. So that would double up differential only subsidy. 2.4 billion.

The solar PV tax credit is about 8 times the market rate. So subtracting out that part of the subsidy is not that different.

About 2 billion kwh for solar in Germany at 30 cents per kwh or a 25 cent premium. Some figures I have seen for the solar feed in tariff are 71 cents/kwh. 400 million more including the solar part. Double that for the rest of Europe or triple to get to the world figure.

So 2.4 billion for wind (europe only) and 800 million for solar europe only for the differential above market price for $3.2 billion Europe only feed in tariff estimate. About 30 other countries have feed in tariffs for renewables. US, Canada, Japan and other countries also have subsidies.

Most utilities in the USA charge 2-32 cent/kwh added charges for wind.
Figure from the American wind energy association

Plus there is the 1.5 cent per kwh production tax credit

Wind production incentives

Also, I don't agree with the subtract carbon emissions from that total. The carbon emissions should be counted as an externality or subsidy for coal, oil and natural gas. Otherwise it would be an adjustment for nuclear.

Some estimates for Solar have fairly high greenhouse gas emissions although still better than coal and natural gas

The Solar PV incentives swamp the market price figure.

So solar and wind should be supported, but it is not true that they are not getting enough support. Coal and oil are the things that should be penalized and shifted away from and it will take support for every other energy source to make that happen in a timely way.

by advancednano on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 07:21:57 PM EST
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Re: Thanks for your comment (none / 1)

Also, all the studies that I have seen are that Feed in Tariffs increase prices. If you are talking about occasional spot reductions a few hours on certain days where it is reduced. I suppose that is possible, but as I noted.

Estimated impact on end use electricity prices according to european commmission.
Feed in tariff increased electricity prices between 4% and 5% for Germany and Spain and around 15% for Denmark.

Average retail price of electricity by state

International electricity costs by country based on IEA stats