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Maybe you retry to start a debate after the US election in November ;-)
A president Obama might help to debate things with US involvement less angrily.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 08:35:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
at our precinct caucuses in Washington on Feb. 9. This will go to the County Convention on April 19 and will probably be forwarded, largely unrevised, to the subsequent Congressional District meeting. As to what it will look like after that, I can't predict, but some form of Iraq withdrawal resolution will emerge from the state convention in June.

This resolution - slightly revised - will also be submitted at some of the Austin, TX caucuses coming up in two weeks.

Point being, we're working on it. More importantly, this actually looks similar to - but more specific in timing and detail than - Obama's policy outline for the Iraq occupation.

An Out-of-Iraq Plan

1)  All U.S. troops redeploy to the 5 main bases in Iraq, as quickly as possible, but no later than 60 days;
  1a) all native Iraqis who request asylum are moved to temporary camps within these bases (finish this step within the 60-day limit);
  1b) all troops not necessary to support those 5 bases begin departure sequence from al Asad air base (finish this step within the 60-day limit);
2) All U.S. "contractors" redeploy to temporary camp in Saudi Arabia within 90 days, in order to organize departure from the region;
  2a) all non-U.S. citizens in "contractors" role are given commercial airplane tickets to their home country;
  2b) all U.S. citizens in these roles are ferried back to the U.S. via chartered flights, paid for by "contractor" companies;
3) All non-essential and low-security-listed material is left in place for local Iraqis to expropriate;
  3a) all weaponry and ammunition are collected within 60 days, to be warehoused in one remote, secure corner of al Asad air base for transport to U.S. -   or for destruction (deadline 150 days, but aligned with troop withdrawal);
  3b) all mine-detection devices, tools, construction equipment and material, and medical equipment are left for local Iraqis to expropriate;                       4) Organize council including Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraqi Sunni, and Iraqi Shi'a to discuss/negotiate political arrangement for southern provinces;                                                                                                                                                                                                               5) Organize council including Turkey, Turkomen, Iran, and Iraqi Kurds to discuss/negotiate political arrangement for northern provinces;                       6) Ask U.N. to hold advisory conference on Iraq situation to obtain viewpoints of all interested parties without direct political role in region;
7) When treaties or constitutions or arrangements acceptable - as demonstrated by U.N.-monitored elections - to the 3 main ethnic/sectarian divisions in Iraq are formalized, begin the full withdrawal of all U.S. military personnel back to the U.S., to finish within agreed date-certain (not later than Sept. 1, 2009).
  7a) native Iraqis who request asylum are processed for immigration to the     U.S. on an expedited basis;
  7b) all stored weapons and ammunition are transported to the U.S.;
  7c) the U.S. bases are turned over to the authorities for the region in which they are located;
  7d) the U.S. budgets for grants/reparations to the Iraq entity or entities that emerge from the agreements.


paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 11:51:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It looked OK in 'Preview'.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 12:28:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like 1)--the acid test: you stop shooting and. . . (you honestly stop shooting--no sneaky shooting). . . do things get worse or better?

Have you talked to any people in the military about this?  Two months to move back to the big bases; it sounds feasible.

1 a) I don't have a good feeling about this--as a vote winner (I 100% support the resolution as written--the only caveat that the timescales have been checked against logistics): you might have millions requesting asylum.  "Get out now, with a passport and support services at the other end."  Are U.S. communities (esp. non-city communities) ready for millions. . . I mean, it is a perfect gesture--not just words but genuine aid.

2) is great.  (from the beginning of the democracy now transcript someone (or maybe Martin!  or afew!) linked to.

Democracy Now! | Vote for Change? Atrocity-Linked U.S. Officials Advising Democratic, GOP Presidential Frontrunners

Presidential candidates are scrambling to win last-minute support in Iowa ahead of tonight's caucus. Thousands of reporters have also descended on Iowa this week, covering everything from Mike Huckabee's haircut to John Edwards's rally with singer John Mellencamp.

But little attention has been paid to perhaps one of the most important aspects of the candidates: their advisers, the men and women who likely form the backbone of the candidate's future cabinet if elected president. Many of the names will be familiar.

(Someone!  What a wonderful program you wrote!)

So who are these advisers?

One of Mitt Romney's top advisers is Cofer Black, the former CIA official who now serves as vice chair of Blackwater Worldwide.

Bingo!  It summed up completely and exactly how he came across to me--strangely it gave me hope: he is really dim and venal--an ad for a jockstrap called "jock!"--

3) Leave it all behind--excellent!  All the non-harmful stuff, and if they trash it, they trash it.  Leave it behind--see if they can find any uses for mine detectors--all the defensive equipment, and blow up all the offensive material, kaboom!

Can the army police itself in this way?  I like this resolution a lot (!)

4) 5) 6) I like--sit down the relevant people and look for calming solutions considerate most particularly of people's need for peace---lower the stress!

7 - How to get that peace turned into with-real-implications-for-political-powerblocs treaties--or: what evil mess of treaties might they create saying always, "But it can't be perfect, we only have until Sept. 1 2009."

7a) absolutely!  But if there is a genuine "welcome to America, here's what you need to get started" package--Iraq has been blown to pieces. . .

I hear a voice saying, "There's a lot of hurt in America, and you want to do 'good will'?  You think our communities are ready for that, what with poverty washing around everyone's ankles, while the rich get out?"  I'm hearing voices!

The U.S. trying to solve everyone else's problems--except Iraq is a very expensive problem--and a war crime, it seems (based on fabricated evidence)--I kernov nussink, paul!

(Cough cough!  Well, I hope you're smiling--or groaning!  Noooooo!)

7 b) -- No kaboom.  We need the weapons stockpiled!

7 c) Okay.

7 d) I suppose 7. . . maybe offer moneycash with no strings, but only for specified projects, starting with health infastructure, sanitation infastructure, electrical infastructure, sort out the oil--maybe keep it in the ground!  Save it, it'll be very very useful in years to come; here's some money to build up the civil infastructure, and we'll make sure the oil plants  get the latest technology--solar panels!  I mean, what if some Bush crony manages to swing it (Berlusconi keeps getting elected), so the new president is a stooge, but he has a piece of paper signed by the U.S. promising lots and lots of no-strings money.  And I'd add a rider: it is essential but not sufficient that funds are given.  It is also essential that Iraqis do the work, while being offered all the technical assistance  needed to undertake requested-by-the-Iraqis projects (e.g.: How does a solar-panel factory work?  Lots of engineering bursaries to go help out--but never oversee except when explicitly requested--ah, the corruption!)

Ach, paul, it's a fantastic resolution!  Tell us how it gets on.  Tell me!




Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 at 08:00:57 PM EST
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