Many thanks for your reply.  As you may know I published a story on this on the European Tribune this morning before I got this, and also had a letter published in the Irish Times today which mentions you in passing.  I will publish your response on the European Tribine to enable any debate to take your views into account.

Kind Regards,

The Libertas e-mail responds to the last e-mail in my diary on a point for point basis and so I will bold their comments on my e-mail below for clarity.

Frank:Many thanks for your reply and my apologies for not responding sooner.  As you know I have been away.

Naoise Nunn, Chief Executive, Libertas:No problem - hope you had a good break.

I find the concept of a "citizen's think tank" vaguely amusing, implying as it does, that other think tanks are not made up of citizens.

You are entitled to be amused although yours is a facile suggestion. The obvious point is that most think tanks involve academics talking to one another rather than to ordinary citizens we aimed to operate differently.

It is hard to escape the obvious conclusion that it is simply a badge of convenience to cover up the fact that there is no substantial body of research to justify the claim to be a think tank of any kind.  

There's nothing "obvious" about your conclusion; we have a full-time staff of two, we have been operating from a standing start for just over a year and if you took the time to look, we have quite a bit of discussion on our website. We have also commissioned an index of MEPs' performance and worked on our energy initiative.

In fact my blog, which I only started last month, probably has more substantive content than the Libertas site.  

It doesn't

The fact that the media reports which you cite make reference to a "Think Tank" rather than a "citizen's think tank" seems to confirm the evasiveness of that claim.

It doesn't confirm anything other than that is what the media have chosen to refer to us as

The least I would expect of a "campaigning organisation" is a point by point substantiation of the claims it is making by reference to the relevant sections of the Treaty.  

We have extensive analysis on the website at www.libertas.org and will shortly be publishing the economic arguments for rejecting the Lisbon Treaty in pamphlet form.

Instead you quote an obscure English parliamentarian.

The chairman of the European Scrutiny committee is hardly "obscure" - and he's Scottish.

Why should we take him as our authority on the Treaty even if he does claim to be pro-treaty?  

I never suggested we should; it was one quote in an email to you

(I would prefer a properly evidenced anti-Treaty argument by an anti-Treaty activist - or is their no need for evidence on a "citizen's think tank?")

There are 12 pages of properly evidenced anti-Treaty arguments on our website and there will be more - the campaign road is a long one

I can find no list of signatories to the Libertas Charter on the website.  

Agreed, it has been removed - people can sign up to it as they wish

The Charter is in any case quite a general aspirational document

Is that a problem? Should we not aspire to anything?

which does not imply either a pro- or anti view of the Treaty.

Why should it? It was drafted before we came to a view on the Treaty.

Give me the Charter of Fundamental Rights contained in the Treaty anytime!

You state you are "now funded by donations from our supporters" - does that include all your start up finance - including the development of your website?

Yes

How many of Declan Ganley's many companies have contributed?

None - he has contributed personally

Will we know the details of your funding at the same time as your leaflet drop - i.e well in advance of the referendum?

We will comply with our obligations under the Electoral Acts and in accordance with the Standards in Public Office Commission just like everyone else. I presume you asked Dick Roche to publish a list of the members of Fianna Fail; reveal whether they supported or opposed the treaty and exactly how much they received in donations and from whom?

Your "Energy Initiative" appears to be entirely irrelevant to the EU Reform Treaty

It is part of our work as a think tank - developing an initiative which harnesses the best of the EU for the benefit of its citizens in a way they can readily appreciate.

and appears to be included only as a means of providing some spurious authority and much needed content for the site.

The Energy Initiative pre-dates the development of our website

If you truly were a Citizen's Think Tank - where are the blogs, online discussion groups, and articles by a wide range of "citizens".  Or is it a Citizen Kane Think Tank, with Declan Ganly playing the role of Citizen Kane?

They're here www.libertas.org

There may indeed be some very good grounds for opposing the Treaty, and I have myself argued that it is gravely deficient in a lot of ways.

Indeed, it is deficient enough to vote No.

However I can see no substantive case being made for this on your site.

Again, the arguments are at www.libertas.org and more will be published shortly

It seems like a vanity project for a very few well funded individuals who take the rest of us citizens for fools.

I don't understand how you could catagorise this as a "vanity project". Whether anyone involved is well-funded or not is irrelevant to the debate. It is the Government which is taking us citizens for fools by asking us to vote for this Treaty on the basis that "Europe has been good to Ireland" - no one disputes that and we're not advocating withdrawal from any aspect of the current dispensation

Again I have to ask the question: In whose interest are you acting,

We're acting in the interests of citizens who are concerned by the growing unaccountable shift in power from national governments to Brussels; we are concerned at the diminution  of Ireland's influence in Europe through the loss of a commissioner for 5 out of every 15 years, the loss of the right to nominate that commissioner, the relative reduction in voting weights, the loss of an MEP and the surrender of 68 vetos in areas such as immigration, energy, the environment, transport and the appointment of the (unelected) president and minister for foreign affairs of Europe. Significantly, the Common Commerical Policy will mean the EU can strip the IDA of the tools it has had to bring foreign direct investment and jobs to Ireland

and what is your signed up membership - and have they all explicitly agreed to oppose the Treaty?  

We do not publish a list of our members - does Fianna Fail? Not all our supporters oppose the Treaty though most do.

Of course you have the right to oppose the Treaty if you so wish.  No one is denying you that.  

Gee, thanks!

It is your claim to speak with some knowledge and authority, and with a greater legitimacy than "legacy organisations" such as political parties which is being questioned.

We've read the Treaty. We don't claim any more legitimacy than anyone else who has read it. Your quote of "legacy organizations" is a reference Declan Ganley made in an interview a couple of years ago referring to the European Parliament groupings of political parties.

Why should anyone take you any more seriously than the average argumentative type in a pub?

Because we're read and studied the treaty, we've had legal advice from some of Europe's top constitutional lawyers and we've published many of our initial views on our website and articulated them in the media

What right have you to stuff my mailbox with junk mail?  

We'll take you off the mailing list

Why should anyone be bothered to read it?  

Because they should be fully informed of the cons of this Treaty as well as the pros which will be argued by the Government and other main parties.

You haven't made your case.

I think we're making some very good arguments and it's early days yet!

Kind regards,

Naoise.

Having looked at Libertas website again, I stand by all the comments I have made above. However I will let interested readers check out the site and come to their own independent view.  Most of the responses seem facile or claim an equivalence with Fianna Fail which has historically been THE Governing party in Ireland and regularly gets 40% of the vote.  No doubt Libertas will claim the credit and an equal mandate if the "No" vote reaches a similar figure.

Having claimed Libertas has no responsibility for the media description of them as a "think tank", Naoise then argues that the "Energy Initiative" is documented on their website is part of their work as a "think tank"!  It seems clear where the media got that idea from.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."