Is America Ready for Revolution? | 127 comments (127 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (none / 1)

errr, 1968 ? Even though it didn't have that many effects, it was still eventful and, at least in France, economically quite important.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 05:56:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (4.00 / 4)

As fond as we are of May'68, I don't think it compares to the American and French Revolutions, the Napoleonic Wars, the 1830 revolutions, the 1848 revolutions, the wars and revolutions around 1870 and the unification of Germany and Italy, the Anarchist unrest in the first 20 years of the 20th century, WWI, the rise of Fascism or WWII.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 06:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (4.00 / 3)

1968 isn't only May, but also Prague spring, Tet offensive and My Lai, the Chicago DNC, protests before the Olympic games in Mexico... Kick started the '70's.

1830 was what, a failed revolution in France (The Orleanist king replacing the Legitimist one...), Belgium independence, and Greek independence ? Not that much more major.

As geezer pointed out, "they" have been getting better at shutting down revolutions.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 06:20:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (none / 0)

linca:

As geezer pointed out, "they" have been getting better at shutting down revolutions.

but as someone in '68 (if I remember right) pointed out "they" have to succeed every time whereas the revolutionaries only have to succeed once.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 06:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (4.00 / 2)

"They" are certainly being successful in making the idea of revolution seem absurd.

Paris students now cheer for the cops, and when they demonstrate, it is to get jobs and money.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 06:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (none / 0)

How--- American.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Feb 29th, 2008 at 06:18:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (4.00 / 2)

The most remarkable things about the decades from 1960-1980, seen from today, are the cartoonish revisionism of the aims and ideas of the times, and the fraudulent "history" that has replaced what really happened.
In terms of ideas, the times were fertile and creative, and changed the world--the world outside the beltway and the boardroom--in a big way.
That defines "important" to me. 1968 was hugely important- and reactive.
However, the winners got to do the editing, and "stuff" won.

Anyone here ever read the port huron statement?

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Feb 29th, 2008 at 06:16:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (4.00 / 3)

There is a lot of debating going on this year on the subject in the French press. Painting May '68 as a student revolt which was mainly individualist and anticonformist, paving the way to our neo-liberal world.

Conveniently forgotten are the general strike, the huge salary raises, the PC attempting to stop the strikes, the real political thoughts that were produced and then conveniently forgotten, the very durable changes in the wage hierarchy and the labour-capital divide of the GNP....

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Feb 29th, 2008 at 08:36:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (4.00 / 2)

Buncha arrogant individualist students having a tantrum.
Same toxic waste that has been so successfully sold in the US.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Sun Mar 2nd, 2008 at 02:33:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The cause and effect relationship ... (none / 0)

Yes. And I sat behind literature tables trying to get other people to read it too.

Gawd it's been .... 40 years (!?!)

eek

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Feb 29th, 2008 at 11:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In the work that Sara is referring to ... (none / 0)

... it means Political Revolution as in the Puritan, American, French, Russian Revolutions.

Hmmm, 60 years of peace ... Fordism has much to answer for, shame its so hard to track it down nowadays to make it give an accounting.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 06:40:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the work that Sara is referring to ... (none / 1)

Revolutionary outbreaks do not necessarily transfer into successful revolutions... I was arguing about the outbreak part. Prague and May were definitely revolutionary...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 28th, 2008 at 06:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the work that Sara is referring to ... (none / 0)

Yes, the work she is referring to is not about conditions are conducive to a revolutionary outbreak, but what conditions permit a revolution to take off ... since the majority of revolutionary outbreaks sputter out.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Feb 29th, 2008 at 11:53:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In the work that Sara is referring to ... (none / 0)

Both Prague and Hungary were crushed from the outside, not unlike, say, the Paris Commune.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 03:30:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is America Ready for Revolution? | 127 comments (127 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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