Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Isn't P2p the real hope  8well unqiue hope) of self-organized anarchic economic society?

Is nto P2p where copyleft is the norm the great last hope of those of us who want a more gift-based society?

the complex gif-economies (potlach) are precisely based on P2P hierarchical status adquisitation trhough gift... in other words.. linux.

If we can democratize energy..and produce clean and cheap ..we can reduce the impact on the planet wioth green agricultural products... once you have that... and you have enough shelters (food, watrmth and sanitation is all what phsycically you need).. you can have a gift-economy not based in competition....or well based in another kind of compeition.

My ideal, I msut say, it is a democratize energy and greena griculture, some competition capitalism in some sector (with regualtion of the state) and huge chunks of the economy based on gift... I think it will be more stable, less ripe to financail instabilities and mroe self-satisfying... For example.. why the finantial markets can not be based on the gift-economy?

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 at 03:52:38 PM EST
Interesting concept--this might also be seen as a compassion-based society.  Compassion in the sense of a mother caring for her child and the reciprocity in families, with the same problems of idealization--it can't work unless all the people feel a part of the whole community, and contributors and recipients of generosity and reciprocity.  Is this not the idea or the economic "system" of the beggar monks?  I guess they do fairly well as beggars, but it may be asking a lot of the rest of us to submit to a life of begging and generosity.  Does there then have to be a place of "commons," where the resources of forest, river, grazing land, etc. are available to any who has the wherewithal to exploit?  There has to be the fear that someone will be left out, or ignored in their time of need.  Not that that doesn't happen with the present system.  Anyway, you've given me something to think about today.
by jjellin on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 10:26:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
wherewithal to exploit?

that word has such negative connotations...

it has a one-way feel to it...

husbandry is as much about nurturing as harvesting, perhaps we need a new word.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 03:15:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"One-way feel," yes, but wouldn't that be the point: to give without expectation of reciprocity and direct benefit.  That could be scary because you could give and give and then when you are in need, you would have to beg for help, which you might not receive, especially if you are not part of the in crowd, or one of the important families or for any other reason find yourself out of favor with your neighbors.

Gift-based society is an idea that sounds nice at first, but then seems unrealistic and impractical.  I guess we've designated the government to be the safety-net of last resort (used to be the church?).  Under the new feudalism, what happens to the government social programs and safety net?

by jjellin on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 04:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Under the new feudalism, what happens to the government social programs and safetynet?

great question...

i assume the return to default: family-

considering how nuclear families have become. compared to a century ago, atomized even, this may not work. church has mostly gone too.

so it's the 'poorhouse' concept, or 'work-camps', unless we develop a lot more empathy as a species.

each new generation born and allowed to learn its history is another nail in the authoritarian mindset's coffin, every soundly educated child  a new individual better immunised against the man=thug pathology that is providing false refuge for many lost sheep, as does jihad.

these diseases need absence of compassion to take root, and are very difficult to modify once established.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Mar 1st, 2008 at 05:54:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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