In other news from New York | 74 comments (74 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Crossposted on DailyKos (4.00 / 8)

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/10/17820/4523/1021/452579

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 05:14:06 PM EST

Re: Crossposted on DailyKos (4.00 / 5)

Normally, the markets would reflect this situation. But they are so disconnected from reality, that even the sharp drops of the past months (and days!) are but small niggling fears in the background, against the reality that the system is broken.

I have found checking the market page at Bloomberg to be very useful in deconstructing financial media currently. It is astounding what changes one finds over the course of an hour, as a lead story disappears after a few minutes because it upsets the market, to resurface on the back pages later on. Then, as JaP sets here, a screenshot could be illuminating. I wish i had documented some of the stories that hit the front page over the past few weeks as the markets were rebounding, and i was thinking, are these people completely without understanding or...

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 05:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Crossposted on DailyKos (4.00 / 3)

They really just don't get it. The bubble they live in on Wall Street is really stunning at this point. And we're just getting warmed up, as I understand it. The subprime mess, from what I've read, is really just the tip of the iceberg.

The recession has, I think, pretty clearly begun. This is going to be very bad.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 05:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, yes and no (4.00 / 4)

the information is there, obviously, as it's in the headlines, and in the stock prices for the financial sector (a good number of which are down 50-90% since a year ago), and quite a few analytical pieces.

Where it has not percolated yet is in the generalist pundit class - they can't seem to process what's going on.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 06:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, yes and no (none / 1)

But when have those clowns ever gotten it right on time? The Krugmans and DeLongs of the world, to say nothing of regularfolk in the blogosphere, have been shouting about this for years.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 06:13:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, yes and no (4.00 / 16)

Can we stop calling them pundits?

A good proportion are paid and sponsored propagandists who knowingly and deliberately turn out the Party line.

The rest are arse licker apparatchiks - like the toadies who write for the Economist - who want to feel they're specially privileged and live on the inside.

There is no punditry going on here. The disinformation is almost exactly equivalent to a totalitarian propaganda machine. It's a little bit shinier, a little bit more self-assured and a little bit better dressed than Pravda used to manage, but functionally the output is identical in quality and intended influence.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 08:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, yes and no (4.00 / 3)

TBG, if I could have said it better myself, I hope I woulda. Bang bloody on!

by PIGL (stevec@boreal.gmail@com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 10:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, yes and no (4.00 / 6)

Dead on.
During the Iran-contra debacle I bought a large scanning, trainable satellite dish (this was just before scrambling became common, then universal) with some good ICOM equipment and started finding and watching as many of the raw feeds as I could from all the news agencies and networks. It was truly incredible to watch the first feeds of the day, which then went to the central office in one form, only to hit the distribution feeds in another form- after the first re-write- (sometimes rather mild), and then, as the day wore on, get progressively massaged. To see the "acceptable" spin applied by the prime time news was very revealing. Like--a different story entirely, often.

Intrusions of the unanointed, unwashed into the real data stream (like mine)was one of the reasons for the huge pressure to encrypt.

So, as you point out, this perverse propaganda process is far from new- in fact, it has long been a basic element in "news" distribution.
But we are far, far better at lying to ourselves than the USSR at it's peak ever was.

We believe our own bullshit. They didn't.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Wed Mar 12th, 2008 at 06:35:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, yes and no (none / 0)

Re believing our own bullshit which the Soviets did not: I met some visitors from the Soviet Union in about 1981, around some nuclear disarmament issue. I was 19, they were older, but what I remember is, they made exactly your point in almost exactly your words, in lovely Radio Moscow english.

by PIGL (stevec@boreal.gmail@com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 12:00:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Crossposted on DailyKos (4.00 / 9)

The propaganda in the business press Jérôme fights against is actually part of the bubble. And they are so used to the practice of positive market spin (resulting in positive trends) that they can't work another way.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 06:08:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Crossposted on DailyKos (4.00 / 3)

Well done, Maestro. Much more important than the hooker gig Spitzer's got going on.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 05:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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