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Busy day for me.  Anybody have any idea what the hell all this stuff about Obama and his pastor is about?  Apparently he gave a big speech on race today that everybody's talking about.

And what the hell is going on with Wall Street?  The Dow's up 300pts on the day.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 01:28:44 PM EST
Obama's pastor said that America might not be the shining land of perfection, freedom, and opportunity, and this was a very bad thing - so Obama publicly dumped him, and made sure no one could believe that he could ever agree with anyone saying such a bad thing.

Today Obama made a speech saying that sometimes bad things happen to Americans, and these are so bad that maybe they shouldn't - or at least not as much, if that's okay with everyone else, yes?

But this certainly doesn't mean that America is bad, or Christianity is bad, or that anything America might do outside of America is bad, in any way, or the idea of America is bad.

Just the opposite.

Obama urges Americans to help heal racial divide - CNN.com

Obama said Wright's mistake was not that he spoke of racism in our society -- "it's that he spoke as if our society was static, as if no progress had been made."

"But I have asserted a firm conviction -- a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people -- that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union," he said.

Obama said tackling race "only as a spectacle" creates distractions that prevent change.

"This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected," he said.

Honestly, I'm finding this laughable. I realise it's a Very Important And Serious Subject, and no one is allowed to say 'Our foreign policy is sociopathic and maybe a third of the population are self-absorbed ignorant flagrantly racist pigs.'

But for a Yurpean, this dancing around 'God and America' is ridiculous - no matter how well it plays at home.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So it's basically an extension of the Farrakhan/black-nationalist attack.  (I'd really like to know why unreformed-Nazi Pat Buchanan and Gingrich Prison Bitch Joe Scarborough were the commentators on the air at MSNBC leading up to this.)  I read a bit of the speech and gather that those kinds of charges are what he's responding to.

Bear in mind that you're getting that from CNN, which clearly has issues with anyone whose skin is lighter than Ian Paisley.  Granted, issues more with Mexicans than blacks, but not lacking in issues with the latter.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
darker than Ian Paisley.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I may inject some reality...  If you are running for President of America and your own pastor -who you appear to have a very close personal relationship with- gives a "God Damn America" sermon ... you should be prepared to get some heat for it.  The point isn't whether we agree with the pastor or not.  The point is - this is a political campaign.  No one gets a free pass with this stuff.  

I'd rather see Obama say, 1) "leave religion out of this" and 2) "he actually has a point - this country has treated us like s#!&!" than try to play the color-blind good Christian who'd never offend anyone.    

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The point isn't whether we agree with the pastor or not.  The point is - this is a political campaign.  No one gets a free pass with this stuff.

Agreed, but with that said: How many MSM stories have we seen on Hagee thus far?  How much service have we really received from the press in an effort to find the sources of Hillary and Bubba's newfound wealth?  (I remind you that we spent ten minutes at the last debate dealing with Louis Farrakhan and only one or two minutes dealing with tax returns.)  Let's not pretend as though reality has a lot of weight here.

he actually has a point - this country has treated us like s#!&!

I agree completely that this would be correct.  But saying things of that nature has a tendency to scare white people.  (Saying it as a white woman is fine, though.)  A similar fear and resentment to that which Ferraro was attempting to exploit.

That's also a reality.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure if Clinton's pastor said we should sing "God Damn America" we'd have heard about it, given the decades of oppo research the entire GOP has devoted to her.  Thing is, I don't even know if the Clintons have a pastor.  Or priest or reverend or what.  I don't know what religion they are - Christian I assume.  Bill, certainly.  But I don't personally know Hillary's religious ideas.  I've not heard Hillary discuss it.  And that makes me happy!  I don't want to hear about her religion!!!  

Look, it's not fair - but it is politics.  And if people are going to whine about this level of mud-slinging now, just wait till Obama wins the nomination and gets into the general.  Right now he's just running against another Dem, a Dem with strong support among African Americans, no less.  Wait till the real racists come out in the GE.  Obama needs to stay on topic and get a better backbone ASAP.  
 

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm certain we'd have heard about it, too.  I'm simply pointing out the obvious double-standard of making a big hoopla over Wright while not paying attention to the decades of wackiness from the conservative preachers.  The Clintons are Southern Baptists, for the record (as if there's anything else to be in Arkansas besides perhaps Pentecostals or Snake-Handlers).  You've never heard Hillary discuss her religion?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bill, oh yes.  But not Hillary - not in any detail.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is probably the only reason to like Hillary.

What's sucky here is that Obama is speechifying about race, but the subtext is that he's submitting and agreeing that there is An Issue with his pastor - someone who's supposed to be a close friend and supporter and even an inspiration.

He could have come out and pulled some quotes from the other side and made them look ridiculous. But instead he's chosen the importance of being earnest.

I think it makes him look spineless on the issue he's supposed to be most passionate about.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:36:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama shouldn't talk about race at all.  Just being black says all he needs to say.  He is allowing himself to be dragged into other people's agendas.  Never apologise, never explain....just do your own thing on your own terms

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not the race issue but the religion issue that was the problem.  He should've said, "Yeah, Wright's got his opinions that y'all don't like, but he's my friend and a good guy, unlike the winger preachers.  (reads assorted winger-preacher statements)  So piss off."

The race issue was fine.  He didn't say anything that thinking people -- few and far between, granted -- didn't already know (we used to have slavery; blacks are angry, whites resent that; yadda yadda yadda), but whatever.

He should've shown more guts on Wright, though.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:50:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah but the winger preachers are Amurkan PATRIOTS who sing God Bless America.  Wright must be a commie

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's right.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It makes strategic sense. He's not likely to lose the black vote, particularly not in the general election, so throwing himself under the bus to quench white racism will only help him.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The difference is that this is his long-time pastor and friend.

Hagee is simply an endorser of McCain. Big difference.

If you want to compare Hagee to someone, compare him to McGurkin.

Then we're comparing apples to apples.

Wright is different.

by Upstate NY on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 10:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
or just snake-oil salespeople?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:31:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, yeah, but that's more the "All of the Above" choice.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:34:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also a white people are evil sermon.

How's that going to fly?

by Upstate NY on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 10:54:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is looking more and more like a Countdown to President McCain.

I told Jérôme to write Countdown to Président Sarkozy once, but he didn't listen.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 19th, 2008 at 03:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ian Paisley is known as a black protestant in these parts....

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A question for the next Presidential debate: "why does God allow suffering?".

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's too easy.  The religionists will say, "Because he's testing us," or, "The Lord works in mysterious ways," or some other such bullshit.

Why do football teams pray before games?  Always they pray, and always one side loses.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:33:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another (harder) question: "Why does America allow suffering?"

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:37:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because caucus states and states with black people don't count.

"Because God helps those who help themselves," I suspect the wingers would say.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:40:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew, this is NOT DailyKos. Shame on you, you Obamite :>
by Francois in Paris on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, come on.  It was such an obvious joke.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know
by Francois in Paris on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know you know. :)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WTF do you know that I don't know?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:14:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank, the sheer volume of that could fill...a thimble.

Or something.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:16:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A pipette ?
by Francois in Paris on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
aha, so you know 50% more than my tuppence worth!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did someone say pipette?

Hey, there's a band called The Thimbles, too.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 06:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Answer: we're just doing God's work.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew J Jones:
Why do football teams pray before games?  Always they pray, and always one side loses.

I think we should check out the guy with white beard and halo at the bookies.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What? No, no, no, no, no! America prefers optimism and hope. Suffering is negative and may encourage pessimism, but America is strong and positive so suffering does not happen there. Next debate: How did God, in his infinite wisdom, make kittens sooooooo cute? And did candidate X's brother once make negative comments about kittens and their cuteness, and therefore offend all right thinking Americans that love kittens?
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Every time you claim God allows suffering, God kills a kitten. Think of the kittens!

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You must be unfamiliar with the "suffering is punishment from God for not being a good Protestant/Capitalist/woman/white person/..." fetish of our Calvinist forefathers...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Better than expected Lehman brothers numbers, I think.

I bailed on 3/4ths of my market short positions - I made some money but I can't beat this market, and I don't know who is cooking what books (the recent inflation numbers were clearly falsified). Shorting the market is playing with fire when Helicopter Ben clearly loves, well, throwing money out of helicopters.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, Lehman actually came out looking pretty good for now.  Ditto Goldman Sachs.  I was a bit surprised.

I'd be patient.  Before too long, Benny will have shot his proverbial wad.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Speak of the Devil, here's Benny slashing rates another 3/4s of a point.  What're we down to now -- 2.25%?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 02:28:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't it going to be 2%?

Everyone must be relieved by that extra quarter of a percent.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It shows them the FED hasn't panicked, yet.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Frank says, maybe that's just the Fed showing us they're still the boss here.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I might give it another go if the market is close to its current value when he runs up against 0%. He's almost there.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there such a thing as a negative interest rate?  Soon they will have to pay people to borrow dollars

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 03:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  That's when the central bank sets their interest rates so low banks can borrow at an immediate profit.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if you take inflation into account, we're already there on the (real) federal funds rate.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Fed is slashing the rates and as they do foreigners are bailing from the low rates and ever dropping value of the dollar versus other currencies.  The last T-Bill/Bond auction was "catastrophic," as one (name forgotten) commentator put it.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:04:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's hardly surprising.  They can see what's happening with the Fed.  We're blowing all our ammo before we've even hit the beach.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 04:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Typically in these situations the currency falls way below its equilibrium value, holders come in and exchange paper for hard assets, and the currency then rebounds.

In the US, we've been living on the credit card for decades so the pain is going to be more intense, the country is going to be sold at fire sale rates, and its going to take a while.

I'm waiting for reaction when the American sheeple finally realize they are no longer in control of their destiny.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 05:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wait, are you telling me those tax refund checks aren't going to fix everything?!?!

Oh fuck.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 05:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The sheeple believe tax cuts and wars pay for themselves, and that house prices never go down.  St John is polling even with both Democrats.  It took them six years to figure out that Shit-for-Brains was the worst president ever.  Do you really think they're someday going to grasp that they don't control their destiny?  I'm afraid that's too big, too far outside the Reality Distortion Field.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 at 05:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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