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Have you seen the hard-time the even old-timers get given around here? The thing is, of course, that we've all already made our extraordinary claims that need extraordinary support for them ... I don't know any way of making those discussions easily available to newcomers, other than Migeru's pointers to historical stuff.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For instance, there's a long running fight over the Lisbon Treaty in it's various incarnations on which there are about three sides among the old-timers on the site.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:04:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, I think my awareness of the hard time I'm likely to be given is hindering my ability to write my diary on Money, Debt, Credit, Investment, Banks and All That. I already threw away one draft.

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I promise I'll be as supportive as I can - from a position of sublime ignorance - don't forget there may always be some smart ass who knows more than you - but there are also probably quite a few who know even less...

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah - I haven't seen anyone give you a hard time - beyond calling you cranky which obviously can't be true...  I tend to to see you as specialising in the Socratic method - "I ask the questions around here..."

I'm sure it is very exasperating to have newcomers come in and re-raise issues you thought had been sorted out and settled for good - but in the real world everything is continually being re-invented. All organisations try to initiate newcomers into their history and tradition and culture - and create a back catalogue of founding documents, key milestones, seminal works etc. - i.e. this is where we are coming from and how things are done around here.

However don't forget that newcomers here also have a past, and for all I know The3rdColumn is a world renowned expert on comparative state welfare dependency studies.  Maybe he too has reason to take certain things for granted and chooses to focus on other issues.  It's always very dangerous to personalise any argument for that very reason.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:30:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think I've written a substantive diary in the time you've been around here, for various reasons. When I do I'll get a beating.

If he has reasons for taking things for granted he can tell us what they are - we'll generally provide references on demand.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you are correct.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 02:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is that The3rdColumn is a woman.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 03:08:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's fair to say that there are issues on ET where there is a clear majority view. These are: a general disdain for neoliberalism and Atlanticism, a generally positive attitude to the EU, support for renewables. But even on these we have our permament dissidents. And there are always divides other than which see you in a minority, so I find this insistence on a supposed ET prevailing wisdom overblown and self-centered.

Newcomers can check the list of most-commented-ever diaries for evidence of divides among the old-timers, most of which continue to exist. For example, the Danish cartoons issue revealed two incompatible views that fought themselves to a standstill. Then there is the nuclear evergreen. An issue with looong history is referendums on the European Constitution/Lisbon Treaty, where as Colman says there are (at least) three sides, that view the others as more or less giving support to the enemy (Eurosceptics), didn't move an iota in two years and repeat the same points on occasion of any new EU development. I myself feel a minority of one among old-timers with the position that neolibs aren't Eurosceptics (and that that matters). We give each other a hard time a lot, but it seems to go under the radar for some (can happen easily if the theme is not interesting to them).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Mar 21st, 2008 at 07:01:26 PM EST
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