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And pumped storage, sure - it helps any type of generation - but where?

I've only driven through that territory once, but from the national topographic map its looks like there are ample useful elevations pretty much anywhere from the Llano Estacado west ... and of course, more in New Mexico.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 04:00:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bruce,

Pumped hydro works when the geography is right.

The investment is more or less a function of the reservoir sizes (cost of the dams) and of the distance between the two reservoirs (cost of the penstocks). But the energy you store and recover for a given volume of water/investment is proportional to the altitude difference between the two reservoirs. And it has to be really steep to make sense.

A good example of pumped hydro is the Grand'Maison (data view) / Verney (data view) pair in the French Alps. The altitude differential is more than 3,000 ft between the two reservoirs spill-way levels (928 m : 1698 m for Grand'Maison, 770 m for Verney) but they are less than 8 miles apart (Verney is SW of Grand'Maison). You don't find everywhere.

by Francois in Paris on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 05:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reminds me of the

Great Battery of Kimberley

doodle of a Diary I did a while ago....

Wherever there's a big hole, there's potential...

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 06:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Electric mountain. I want one.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 06:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... storage hydro, where from what I understand you need a good drop of somewhere around 100m or more for each of the units to be effective, and steeper is by and large better from a capital cost standpoint. I believe there are suitable drops in a number of areas of west Texas from the Llano Estacado on west.

Traditional pumped hydro has to be either added to an existing hydropower facility or faces far higher regulatory hurdles than modular pumped storage hydro would, since traditional pumped hydro has to be connected into the watershed.

You raise an important point. The power industry has demands for power generation that focus on what is most convenient to the power industry, and sets aside costs external to the market, such as reckless experimentation with the world's climate or exposure to risks of political sabotage. It is the responsibility of government to impose the framework upon the power industry that ensures that it can pursue its own commercial interest without acting counter to the public interest .. that reflects those external costs to the power industry so that it pursue the lower full cost technology rather than the strongest free ride technology.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 at 09:59:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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