Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Yes, but it doesn't necessarily displace the fuel consumption and the CO2 emission at the same degree. It all depends on how reliably wind farms can commit to a specified production for up to the start-up time of the back-up fossil fuel plants. Otherwise, the fossil fuel plants must remain in hot stand-by with a very high fuel consumption while doing nothing.

It looks like this is what happened to Texas. They got caught with their pants down, the wind on strike and no planning between wind producers and fossil-fuel producers.

Well, that seems to be Anglo de-coordination at work again.

In a normal country,

  1. there has to be a wind predicting service (projecting ahead say on a scale of 24 hours),
  2. from that, the power from grid-connected turbines is projected,
  3. other producers plan their (stepped baseload) generation accordingly,
  4. the differences between prediction and actual weather/power generation need fine-tuning, which fits in the framework of normal power system stability management via regulating running power plants (and in which wind itself is now included, too). (In Germany, that's usually done in the 15-minute regime.)

At regional level (which is relevant here), changes due to weather are on the timescale of hours, just enough time to fire up that gas plant in case of total wind silence. This is a different issue from quasi-instant power loss (like shutdown due to high wind or malfunction for a single turbine, or power line disruption for an entire farm).

Even the fastest combined cycles gas plants take more than four hours from a cold start to come on-line at their full rated power if you want to remain within somewhat acceptable NOx discharge levels and stress on the turbines (General Electric US patent 6978620B2 2004).

But warm start (start after overnight shutdown, NOT from running on standby) can be as low as 40 minutes.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 at 06:44:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no, no.

Not under normal conditions for a CC plant. Either you kill the plant and you pay the bill later in maintenance or you spew pollution in huge amounts by using abnormal mix or PC to speed up the approach to temperature.

And there's no time scale on Siemens pretty chart...

The best GE can do with a CC plant is a ramp-up to 100% in 90 minutes on a hot start after 8 hours shutdown.

Siemens must be endowed with some unknown form of genius. What they propose is really outside of the norm and they state a 20 years expected life time on their systems. I'm curious to see in what shape their Benson boiler will be after 7,000 fast ramps.

I'll believe Siemens in four or five years when there is a little bit of experience on those types of procedures.

Those babies run at 250 bars and 600°C. They were all the rage in the late 50s, early 60s when they were first introduced and then they started to spring cracks everywhere due to static stress and temperature cycling and a lot of plants switched back to subcritical boilers with the traditional drum and superheater. The technology has clawed its way back and is now the norm in new coal and CC plants and is really efficient. But the industry has learned to be very gentle with supercritical boilers. Not your average cooking pot.

by Francois in Paris on Tue Mar 4th, 2008 at 08:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Occasional Series