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Although provenanced Strats from the right manufacturing periods have increased in value about 10-12%  year on year - no matter who played them or owned them. So it is not just another guitar ;-)

But I agree with the fetishization. I'd add that the narrative has to be shared to be powerful.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 07:32:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
Although provenanced Strats from the right manufacturing periods have increased in value about 10-12%  year on year - no matter who played them or owned them. So it is not just another guitar ;-)
And why is that? is it because of the way they sound, or is it that once the 10-12% trend established itself it becomes a self-fulfilling expectation for both buyers and sellers?

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 07:42:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't forget that provenanced Strats from particular periods also have a rarity value.

Once you're only talking about 10% a year there are an awful lot of "provenanced" items (particular children's toys, etc.) that come out of mass manufacturing that show these gains, so long as there aren't many of them surviving...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 08:09:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please note, I'm not saying this is anything other than insane, just pointing up that scarcity turns things into positional goods.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 08:11:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard of someone who goes to book signings and keeps the books on the off chance that the author becomes big in a few years' time. Imagine a signed copy of Harry Potter's first edition!

It'd be nice if the battle were only against the right wingers, not half of the left on top of that — François in Paris
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 08:43:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Harry Potter First Editions - Harry Potter at Catch The Snitch
An unsigned first edition copy of "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's (Sorcerer's) Stone" may be worth between £3,000 and £4,000. A signed copy may be as much as £10,000. One of the first edition "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's (Sorcerer's) Stone" hardbacks was sold for £10,575 at a Sotheby's auction in early 2002


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 08:51:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the toughest jobs I ever had was leading a team to design and build a website to market and sell rare Scotch whiskys.   Not being a Whisky drinker I had to do a tasting course and also visit various distlleries around Scotland talking to the Distillery Managers etc.

On the blind tasting course - attended by quite a few master distillers, very few had any consistent ability to tell the main brands apart - whether it be a £200 rare malt or a £30 standard bottle - and some even had difficulty recognising that one of the drinks thrown into the blind tasting was a brandy.

Yes we could tell the major differences apart - the cask strength, degree of peatyness etc. but very very few can really appreciate the the minute differences which can lead to huge variations in price.  Its not about the liquid itself, its about how people want to badge themselves - as connoisseurs  and as different from the hoi polloi.

I'm sure I've upset a few people here!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 12:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Beware a nocturnal visit from the Shìth of the Caol Ila cult ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 12:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Caol Ila?  It's only a pale shadow of Lagavulin in any case.....

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 12:24:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh yes, the price expensive whiskys are to (at least) 99% status consumption. An obvious indicator is that single malt are valued higher then blended. Blended is more work and - skilled work at that - producing a richer variety of flavours. But single malt is better for scarcity in that you have a particular malt and a particular age. Not as good as wines from a particular grape, particular place and particular year but better then nothing.

IIRC, whisky was made an object of high status pretty late - 1900ish or so. Before that it was simply the booze made and drunk in particular regions.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 06:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I always thought that whisky had become popular in England when Napoleon blockaded the UK and cut off the Cognac supply, which was before that the source of booze for the English gentry...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Mar 26th, 2008 at 09:56:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For the afficianados (read Pilkkunussijat), there were certain early periods when everything about a Strat was perfect - the neck, the wood used, the nuts, the pick-ups, the people who made them by hand etc. You are meant to be able to hear or feel this difference.

I have never been able to tell the difference, because I never really played the guitar. As a producer there are so many other things to worry about soundwise - especially the competence of the player. But I've certainly seen guitarists fall in love with a guitar as they start to play it. What is it that they feel? I don't know. I guess it just feels 'right'.

All Strats have been serial numbered. There are lists of all these numbers. Even parts like the neck may have a pencilled number or mark on the invisible part of the join to the body. But there are quite a few fakes out there. They are unlikely to fool real experts because of serial number duplication, but for neophytes to the arcane world of Strats, a 'distressed' Strat made up of bits and pieces can pass for genuine.

This is rather similar to the junk bond packages. Crap with a fake AAA rating.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 08:14:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In fact this might be time to review 2 movies:

'F for Fake', Orson Welles' brilliant obfuscation.

and

'13 conversations about one thing' directed by Jill Sprecher - "philosophy illustrated through everyday events" (Roger Ebert)

If you seek them out out your video rental store,  I guarantee it will be worthwhile effort ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 08:56:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
I have never been able to tell the difference, because I never really played the guitar. As a producer there are so many other things to worry about soundwise - especially the competence of the player. But I've certainly seen guitarists fall in love with a guitar as they start to play it. What is it that they feel? I don't know. I guess it just feels 'right'.

Nothing sounds quite like a real Moog modular. I can certainly hear the difference, and if I could spend £30k without blinking I might even consider buying one, even knowing that it's not going to stay in tune and will need constant maintenance.

There's a difference between genuine musicality and random mojo. There's quite a bit of overlap with legendary instruments - qv branding again - but it's not quite the same as the stratospheric mojo associated with celebrity.

Even without celebrity, instruments are a lot like clothes. You don't just buy them for what they do - make a noise, keep you warm - but because they dramatise your disposable income and style, and make you feel a certain way about yourself.

This - illusory - feeling of crafting your own narrative is what drives economics, advertising, and not a little politics.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 09:25:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I get my hands on one of these babies, I can spend all my free time picking apart my millions of Acid samples ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 10:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll be getting that in for review when it's out. One of my editors was blown away by it at Frankfurt, but enthusiasm was tempered when he found out they've been making similar claims for at least five years now.

We'll see.

The current Melodyne is pretty good - very impressive time-stretch, but a slightly awkward interface. I think I've only ever used it once, for picking the notes out of a bass line loop.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 01:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If we're talking gear prOn - what I really want is one of these.


by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 01:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I had any musical training whatsoever, that sounds creative.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 02:13:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and apologies for thread hijack...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 02:20:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your conversation is actually a useful detour around the notion of "value."

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 02:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is always easier for me to apply insights to what I know. It's a kind of lateral thinking.

But 'value' is an underlying central theme of ET IMO.  It is what connects all the diaries together, although some of us come from a toally different direction. Multidisciplinary or Transdisciplinary - take your pick.

Although discredited by 'Time & Motion' excesses, OR (Operational Research) iss till the best method for seeing the forest from the trees - as I am know you Miners have been taught ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 03:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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