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Now that I've laid out a possible conflict with China, let me offer an alternative.

China is rapidly sinking into anarchy and civil unrest. The number of protests by injured citizens is estimated at 80,000 per year. The social service network that existed under the pre-capitalist economic model has been removed. Health care and employment are no longer guaranteed. As a result there are many people who are now suffering from ill health who would not have before.

The loss of jobs in government enterprises and the take over of rural land by corrupt local governments and entrepreneurs has displaced many who now constitute a roaming band of marginally employed. They have no ties to the communities where they find employment.

The disproportionate growth in the cities to the detriment of the countryside has put a strain on resources and has led to the need to import raw materials (and apparently food). This has led to an increase in costs worldwide and created the tensions seen in much of the third world. Perhaps China can still extract resources from corrupt regimes in Zimbabwe and Sudan, but what will happen when people are starving elsewhere in Africa and see their resources being shipped off to China while they get no benefit?

In addition to resource shortages the rise of a middle class in the cities has produced internal dislocations. Beijing is already stealing water from nearby regions. Grain is being diverted to livestock feed thus pushing up the cost to those still dependent on a traditional diet.

Rapid expansion in both the industrial and building sectors has led to much quick and dirty construction and policies, which are now severe enough that Beijing won't be suitable for the Olympics without shutting down much of this activity for several weeks. The health effects of pollution from coal power plants and automobiles are now of serious concern.

What all this means is that there is a high probability for yet another internal revolution. Each time things have gone wrong since 1948 the Communist Party has come up with some policy to "fix" it. The "Great Leap Forward", the "Cultural Revolution" and several others have all been disasters. With no democratic structures to provide for debate and feedback the leadership can impose ill-conceived schemes on the whole populace at once. There is no reason not to expect this to happen again.

Parts of the economy may be partially privatized, but the party and the army are still in control. When the seams crack open too wide the response will be disproportionate and cause China to fall back into third world status - at least for a few decades.

Many people are willing to postulate that the US is losing its super power status and rotting from within because of bad policies, so why shouldn't China fall victim to the same sort of fate, especially since has no checks and balances?

Finally, on the issue of what would happen if China "dumped" its treasuries. To do this would require a buyer, there are none who can absorb the amount that China presently holds. Furthermore what would they pay for them with, dollars?

More likely we will see China investing in treasuries less than before and/or using some of their foreign exchange to buy US assets directly. It's never happened before, but the US can also put restrictions on redemption. Other countries have done this in the past and those holding the notes just have to lump it. During WWII the US seized German owned assets in the US and sold them off later. The US could decide to treat Chinese owned assets differently than others and maintain some sort of credibility in world markets. Whether this would work in practice I'm not smart enough to predict.

So instead of WW III we see the Asian Tiger implode and the US gets several more decades of free lunch.

Choose your scenario.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 05:50:56 PM EST
there were over 600 riots last year in China but they are publicized.  These were about a variety of issues but it shows that more and more, with the economy becoming freer, people feel that they have a right to express themselves.  (I forget where I heard this number)

there are also lots of riots in African countries because the Chinese companies import Chinese workers to work in their entreprises in Africa.  They consider them to be cheaper and more reliable than the Africans.  There is also ill feelings towards the Chinese who open $ stores in African countries and sell things cheaper than the native merchants do.
there have been riots in Tunisia for these reasons, but we don't get to hear much about them either.  

by zoe on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 06:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why don't you give us one where both the U.S. and China -- not to mention the rest of the world -- end up for the better?

A language is a dialect with an army and navy.
by marco on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 07:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm the house pessimist. Why don't you do it?

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape
by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 07:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because I'm not qualified, either with respect to economics or to China.  But I am optimistic (stupid?) enough to believe that one exists.  I'll keep looking.

A language is a dialect with an army and navy.
by marco on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 07:22:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... the US adopts a crash program of Sustainable Energy Independence. No longer needing to look at Africa as a potential source of oil, it is free to pursue a policy of balanced trade of finished goods for finished goods, leading to an a surge in high value added agrarian and urban products from Africa, released from Thirlwall's Law constraints.

Latin America is drawn into the system, with Mercosur in the South and a new Caribbean Basin trade zone including Mexico through Venezuela, the Spanish Caribbean, CARICOM, and spilling over into Peru and Ecuador breaking through the old national market constraints that plagued Latin American domestic industrial development.

China, continuing in technological chase mode, adopts as much of the technology that the US makes available, and the US sees no reason to sit on any of it, given that the more sustainable energy resources tapped by more nations means more energy resources for all.

And, uhhh ... Europe, North Africa, Russia and India also do stuffs thats are teh bomb.

Sweetness and light, except the part of wresting the American economy from the cold dead fingers of the Military Industrial Complex and putting it onto the task of serving the interests of the American people. That parts a bit messy, but I'll just close a curtain on that part.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 08:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
rdf:
Finally, on the issue of what would happen if China "dumped" its treasuries. To do this would require a buyer, there are none who can absorb the amount that China presently holds. Furthermore what would they pay for them with, dollars?

It is true that there is only an actual market price if transactions take place.

But this misses the point, because China's motive in selling would not actually be to sell, but to fuck the US economically.

Such trading conduct - aimed at wounding its target economically - was essentially the "Economic Terrorism" which was the subject of a conference I attended of the Geneva Centre for Security Policy (www.gcsp.ch ) three years ago - a conference sponsored by the US Dept of Homeland Security, with the CIA and lots of Euro Spooks there.

My thesis was (and is) that the energy market is dangerously exposed to "market discontinuity" by the concentration of risk in "single points of failure" aka Clearing Houses. I went on to say that the only difference between hedge funds and economic terrorists is motive.

I digress.

Whenever a buyer emerged, China would sell to them, and then on to the next bidders (who would rapidly dry up)

The result would be a market "discontinuity" on a cosmic scale.

China would make known (to everyone) that they are massive sellers (the opposite of prudent trading where you try and hide big orders).

So in fact China probably would not ACTUALLY sell that much because who would buy knowing they are going to be instantly losing?

The result would be a fucked market, with who knows what consequences.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 at 02:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Finally, on the issue of what would happen if China "dumped" its treasuries. To do this would require a buyer, there are none who can absorb the amount that China presently holds. Furthermore what would they pay for them with, dollars?

Euros, Swiss Francs, GBP, Yen, Australian Dollars.

And at whatever FXR the holders of those currencies wish to offer, because as long as the Chinese are holding THOSE exchange rate at a discount against the floating market rates, they will be creating renminbi to buy those currencies ... so the size of their foreign exchange reserves is not relevant to whether their exchange rate policy can succeed or not.

As long as they are not trying to defend an overvalued currency, the question of how much foreign exchange reserves they have on hand is moot ... any nation with its own currency can always depress its exchange rate by creating domestic currency to purchase foreign exchange.

Its not like they were buying the USD securities "as an investment in the securities" ... the purchase of the USD securities was a tool to depress the renminbi/USD exchange rate.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 at 02:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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