Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
It's actually already been going on, via unfair trade deals (unfair both to workers in the so-called north and free-holders in the so-called south), under the auspices of the WTO, for the past two decades. The western elite attempting to inflate their way out of this crisis they themselves have created, is just the next step.

I'm on the other hand not sure the population has to fall, there's plenty of fallow land to till and plenty of space to house people. The important thing to my mind is striving towards equality; this is the way we make the transition to a sustainable planet, one which manages resources on a global scale, and with respect for all citizens of this globe without regard to passport, without the sorts of wars Michel Houellebecq intimates.

In any event, if certain folks would think propoerly about their carbon footprint, maybe we wouldn't be talking so much about using that land to fuel Tom Friedman's Lexus, eh?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 01:02:52 AM EST
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Sure it has.  The plutocrats have been stealing everything that isn't nailed down from both the North and the South for centuries.  (And if it is nailed down they go home to grab a crowbar.)  The only difference, this time, is they are using the crowbar on themselves too.

As to the second, actually there isn't.  There's plenty of land lying around but most of it (New Mexico, for one) is worthless for sustaining agriculture over time.  That's what is happening in the Central Valley and the Ogallala Aquifer regions; it worked for a while but now that while is up.  In theory some of the land (New Mexico, for one) lying around could be used in an energy-intensive kind of way, e.g., hydroponics, but that would require a complete turn-over in the agricultural work-force since the current - heh - crop of farmers don't know how to do it.  Problem: do you want to work your ass off for 10 to 14 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for about $20,000 a year after investing about a half a million bucks?  

I didn't think so.  I don't.  Nobody else does either.  And why few people are getting into high-tech agriculture.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 02:17:41 AM EST
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I think you would be interesting in following the thread of this discussion on the DailyKos diary I linked to. Here's my original comment: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/4/8/201936/8218/137#c137
by NBBooks on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 12:29:41 PM EST
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I'm on the other hand not sure the population has to fall, there's plenty of fallow land to till...

It's not just land. Growing food does use up a lot of resources, such as fertilizers (which are energy), machinery (energy again); and it requires very well organized lines of supplies and deliveries, which again use up resources.

It appears more and more clearly that, yes, there is land to till, but the resources needed just won't be there - unless of course we go back to tilling by hand and accept low yields (no fertilizers), which mean high prices.

High price food is here, it will stay here as long as high priced energy is here, and the next step is peak food.

by balbuz on Wed Apr 9th, 2008 at 12:29:45 PM EST
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