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It is not a "parent organisation." They have completely different origins and there is little and less reason to treat them as one organisation. If the way they treat their enemies were the deciding factor in whether an organisation was a part of Al Qaeda or not, the US Marine Corps would be a part of Al Qaeda. Well, except that I doubt that Al Qaeda has access to quite as much white phosphor.

And of course you said "extremists." But you were talking about partisan organisations. And while I have not studied the matter extensively, I think it is fair to assume that it will be hard to find the complete works of Kemal Atatürk in the Kurdish territories. So no, I don't buy the assertion that you can pick up any book you like in Vietraq. Not even if you exclude the parts of Vietraq where people are shooting at each other on a regular basis. Which in any case makes any comparison apples-to-oranges...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Apr 19th, 2008 at 04:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Again Jake, I am talking about results or methods for grouping peoples together. Although I hope we both can see that happening a lot in politics. What I am saying is that no matter if Marxist is in Cambodia or in China as long as they believe the same things and pay allegiance to each other then for all intents and purposes they are the same group of extremists.

I can't imagine that we really want to see what their markets have and judge it by that, but if you want to pursue looking at any laws that prevents such books as you mentioned from being distributed, let me know.

Rutherfordian ------------------------------ RDRutherford

by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1 -at- msn -dot- com) on Sat Apr 19th, 2008 at 05:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Duh!!!
"Again Jake, I am [NOT] talking about results or methods for grouping peoples together."

Rutherfordian ------------------------------ RDRutherford
by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1 -at- msn -dot- com) on Sat Apr 19th, 2008 at 05:19:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're succumbing to the "big man" fallacy of history writing. Or in this case the "big idea" version. Marxists in Cambodia are not the same as Marxists in China (or as Marxists in Nepal for that matter).

They may or may not have contacts with each other and may or may not be on friendly terms, but it is patent nonsense to claim that they are "the same group of extremists" when their organisational structure, political goals, strategies, tactics and membership are unrelated, evolved separately and will likely continue to evolve separately. Simply saying "here be commies" is not an argument.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Apr 20th, 2008 at 02:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Again, I am saying if they recognize each other and abide by the same philosophies and ideologies even to supporting each other in resources then they are the same. I see a lot less correlations with the Anglo-Disease than what I am talking about here.

I would also ask that you pay attention. Notice I did not say the Marxists in Vietnam and Cambodia were the same, I said China and Vietnam had the same goals and desires.

Now of course you could be right that they separate their ways, we have seen a lot of groups separate and go their ways. And from I read their was already some falling out during the control of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Rutherfordian ------------------------------ RDRutherford

by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1 -at- msn -dot- com) on Sun Apr 20th, 2008 at 04:02:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Again, I am saying if they recognize each other and abide by the same philosophies and ideologies even to supporting each other in resources then they are the same.

And none of your examples do. FFS, half of the partisans in Vietraq that are being labeled "Al Qaeda" are Shia Muslims. Calling them Al Qaeda is like accusing an Ted Haggard of being a member of the Opus Dei.

And besides, the Marxists in Cambodia (or Viet Nam, if you prefer) manifestly didn't have the same goals and desires as Marxists in China. Both wanted to kick the US out of Indochina and both groups were (more or less) Marxist, but if that's criteria for likeness, then the Pope and the American fundagelicals are the same brand of extremists - both are Christian of some description and both want to kick gays out of America.

Finally, you are begging the question when you argue that there has been "a falling out" - if there was no collusion in the first place, then a falling out is not really the proper description.

So can we please end this detour?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Apr 20th, 2008 at 06:34:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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