High oil prices? Tax cars & jet fuel! | 67 comments (67 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (none / 1)

Negligible? Electric heating is less than half of oil heating as recently as 2003 link
page 76.
And what argument speaks for taxing oil highly but neither nat gas nor coal? Why is one third a non-issue, when two thirds are such a big problem?

And what kind of additional sales taxes are there in other countries?

The measure is not at all regressive, it is progressive, although still selective. And that is a very big problem.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 02:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (4.00 / 3)

I clearly stated 'natural gas or electric'. Which is obviously true (58%, and if you see that Fernwärme is produced by power plants, 64%). Energy for heating is not a full third of what oil is being used for, it's split with the other uses (like chemicals). In total the use of oil for households is around 20% of total oil energy consumption and 16% of total oil consumption (for transport, that's 65% and 52%, respectively).

I entirely agree that gas and coal (and to a lesser degree, electricity) should also be taxed. They already are, by the way, to a lower degree. As is mineral oil for heating, see here and here.

So your statement

But the real issue are not gas taxes. The real issue is the lack of taxes on oil consumption outside the traffic sector.

is wrong on all counts.

It is most wrong because these are all real issues. And the 'ecological movement' is addressing all of these issues. At least the weatherisation of homes is something I hear about a lot, even from the current German government.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 04:28:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (4.00 / 2)

Not to mention that

gas and coal (and to a lesser degree, electricity) should also be taxed. They already are, by the way, to a lower degree.

All of these are done by the Ökosteuer, which the CDU used to oppose strenuously.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 04:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (none / 0)

Maybe I was unclear what I meant, I didn't mean, that gas taxes are in general irrelevant, but that this is not the place where currently change is needed.

The fact, that the gov speaks about houses is no contradiction to that, but a support. In general I'm not unhappy with the gov's environmental policies, I was talking only about what Mr. Tiefensee said. And it is of course no support for your statement that the 'ecological movement' is addressing all the issues, as the current gov doesn't contain people I would count as part of that, while the previous gov did contain such people, and obviously did not deal with the house insulation issues in a way, that only small changes would be enough now.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 04:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (none / 1)

obviously did not deal with the house insulation issues

As I write downthread, the current programme started in 2001... and all four ministers of the responsible ministry during Schröder's time (Müntefering, Klimmt, Bodewig, Stolpe) were SPD ministers, so funny thing you think the Greens should have acted.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 04:52:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (none / 0)

Well, if it is an important issue, I think the greens should have acted on that. If you think that is funny, then you certainly will be happy if I put the responisbility of the likely Bahn privatisation mostly on the SPD, because they have currently that ressort?

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 05:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (none / 0)

Well, if it is an important issue, I think the greens should have acted on that

I repeat the obvious: the Greens didn't have the ministry to act with. It was nice enough to have Trittin battle Clement over the responsibility for energy policy, with Trittin controlling the feed-in law. Pressure is another thing, and there was pressure and there was effect - I repeat that that programme started in 2001 -, though it is one thing when the pressure comes from the senior coalition partner and another when it is a small one.

will be happy if I put the responisbility of the likely Bahn privatisation mostly on the SPD

Happy I won't be, but they are deep in responsibility.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 05:07:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High oil prices? Tax cars (4.00 / 3)

Martin:

And it is of course no support for your statement that the 'ecological movement' is addressing all the issues, as the current gov doesn't contain people I would count as part of that, while the previous gov did contain such people, and obviously did not deal with the house insulation issues in a way, that only small changes would be enough now.

You are really stretching it when you want to suggest that the greens did not want to do more in the Schröder cabinet than what was decided back then (the current programme, as DoDo states). Anyway, this is from their current (awfully titled) 'Energie 2.0 - Die Grünen Maßnahmen bis 2020'.

Gebäudesanierungspaket

Verschärfung der Energieeinsparverordnung (EnEV)

Energieausweis für Gebäude

KfW-Gebäudesanierungsprogramm verlässlich ausfinanzieren

Förderprogramm der technischen Gebäudeausstattung

Steuerliche Abschreibung von Sanierungsmaßnahmen

You can find the detailed proposals in the .pdf

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu May 29th, 2008 at 05:26:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

High oil prices? Tax cars & jet fuel! | 67 comments (67 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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