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The taxing of cars proportionally to CO2 emissions is wonderful if it would mean taxation proportional to CO2 emissions, but that is of course not what he really means. Fuel taxes are proportional to CO2 emission. Car taxes are never. A gas guzzler driven 25 km a week emits much much less CO2 than a more reasonable car driven 500 km a week. Unfortunately this rubbish is the only thing which Tiefensee really can do.
But the real issue are not gas taxes. The real issue is the lack of taxes on oil consumption outside the traffic sector. Just recently I read, that a representative of the German real estate business said, oil prices are not yet high enough that it would be a good investment to reinsulate older houses. But here clearly the 'ecological movement' has a strong bias against cars. Other waste is doesn't matter. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
The problem of Tiefensee is, that he is caught in traditional environmentalists thinking and this means often ignorance to any side effects outside a specific milieu. But these inefficient suggestions make normal people to think they have done a lot (or enough) for the environment, while the society as whole only creeps to sustainability. And this plays a role. Most people do not evaluate the effects of their actions on the environment for every single action. So the feeling of having done enough, has a lot of impact.
And with regard to his harmonsation dreams, that is really not new. New would be, if a country with lower gas taxes than all his neighbours would propose harmonisation, not when a country that has higher taxes (and therefore loses tax revenue from 'fuel tourism') proposes it. I would be seriously surprised if this becomes some kind of EU legislation. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
Under the second scheme, taxing cars and car fuel higher than heating is perfectly reasonable (for personal vehicles, at least). Cars, after all, are completely unnecessary for at least half the adult population - namely the half that lives in areas with a population density greater than roughly 250 people pr. square km.
- Jake Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
And your argument is bad anyhow. What with the people who do not live in such dense populated areas? Why is heating reasonable, when it is possible to reinsulate houses in a way, that they don't need heating at all? And of course you can live in a huge old villa, which is luxury and needs a lot of heating. There is no reason at all to assume that heating in general can't be as much luxury as car driving. Therefore the first approach, to tax on environmental impact and compensate for regressivness is much better. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
So if you go by the former route, you will get better environment (compared to doing nothing) and less inequality. If you go by the latter route, but stop short of adequately compensating the poor who are regressively taxed, you get better environment but bigger inequality, which you will then have to redistribute your way out of.
In the ideal world, where the quid pro quo of the latter policy was clearly understood and accepted by all political actors, that would not be a problem. But in the real world, where we have to fight tooth and nail for any redistribution at all...
As for your counter-examples, there is no reason why car taxes cannot be tied to the location of the car through, for example, fees to enter or park in densely populated areas. Well, that and the fact that there is certainly a case to be made that population densities insufficient to support a rail line are insufficient, full stop.
Similarly, if one were to institute a tax on heating fuel - and an inheritance tax, a wealth tax and a progressive income tax to restore progressivity to the tax system - and use the proceeds to fund re-insulation of houses, then I would have no objection. But in the real world, what is usually proposed is simply heating fuel taxes, full stop, which is inherently regressive. Even worse, it hits tenants worse than home-owners, because the landlord has little financial incentive to improve the insulation (the tenant usually pays the heating bill, after all).
And if living in the countryside would be insufficient, it would turn out faster so, with a fuel tax, compared with a car tax. A car tax hits more people, e.g. driving once a week for buying stuff you can't get locally than long range everyday drivers compared with a fuel tax.
And with regard to political feasability of some progressive countermeasure to regressivity of fuel tax, I would say that a group in the position to implement a tax should as well be in the position to implement a benefit. Either you have legislative majority or you have not. My favourite by-measure would be to pay a unconditional basic income of the fuel tax revenue. Of course still some relatively poor people, e.g. long range commuters will be hit, but in the end one wants those people who use more than the average to pay for what they are doing. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
I would point out, however, that such fuel-taxes will have to be Unionwide, whereas car taxes can be implemented locally: In geographically small countries, fuel taxes can be evaded by "fuel tourism" in much the same way wealth taxes can be evaded by Swiss bank accounts. Cars, on the other hand, can be taxed locally, because cars have to be registered locally in order to be driven legally.
As for the political feasibility of compensating vs. taxing; in theory you are right. And in theory, theory and practise are the same. But take note of the most recent tax downsizings in Denmark: Taxes were downsized for the rich and richer, and the part of the tax downsizing that was financed at all was financed by green taxes. Now, I have nothing against green taxes, but using the income from green taxes to pay for tax downsizings that mainly benefit rich fatcats, that I do have a problem with.
(In the Danish example, a median-income family got precisely zero net benefit from the tax downsizing scheme - I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to extrapolate downwards in the income distribution.)
(I don't know about the case WRT the chemical industry)
Chemical factories are criticised for other reasons: Mainly that a lot of them churn out substances that have not been rigorously tested for safety and efficacy.
As for nuclear plants, that may well look silly today, where the waste disposal problems have been if not solved then at least substantially mitigated, but do you really think that that progress would have happened if not for a strong lobby against "burn and dump" nuclear plants?
If you do, I invite you to take a look at the hardrock mining industry, where the waste disposal problems have simple technical solutions... But these are only implemented when substantial political pressure is applied. And if after examining that exhibit, you still think that substantial progress would have been made in nuclear waste management and disposal if the industry had been left to its own devices, then I have some $100 oil futures I want to sell.
And, of course, opposition to nuclear power might look less silly when you consider the fact that proliferation of peaceful nuclear technology makes it easier for countries to expand into - shall we say - less benign uses of the atom.
</snark>
Mehr als 25 neue Kohlekraftwerke sollen in den nächsten Jahren in Deutschland gebaut werden. Allen voran wollen RWE, Vattenfall, e.on und EnBW wieder in die Technik von gestern investieren. Will Deutschland seine Klimaziele erreichen, darf es keine neuen Kohlekraftwerke geben.
Kampf gegen Kohle (Campaign of the German Green Party)
Kohlekraftwerke sind der Klimakiller Nr. 1. Dennoch planen Vattenfall, RWE & Co. mehr als 30 neue Kohlekraftwerke allein in Deutschland. Gruenes-klima.de informiert und bündelt den bundesweiten Widerstand. Hilf auch Du mit und stoppe die Klimakiller. In der Rubrik "Kampf gegen Kohle" findest du die aktuellsten Informationen zum Widerstand, eine interaktive Online-Karte, alle Ansprechpartner vor Ort und vieles mehr.
The viability of nuclear in Germany doesn't rest exclusively in the hands of mindless German politicians, but also in the hands of mindless Swedish politicians. ;) Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Garzweiler II was a defeat, but it was something, I'd say. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
Ok, one could argue that windmill and solar subsidies are 'anti-coal', but I think that big industrial power consumers still can make a deal with a power companies to get electricity essentially at the price as it comes from a coal fired plant, so I wouldn't directly count wind as anti-coal. And nuclear... There were really enough (good) discussions about nuclear in this forum... Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
But why should others subsidize your choice to live in a place where it's cold?
Furthermore, if I want to have an old car in my garage, which I only drive a few dozen miles a year, why should I have to pay a tax based on its lousy fuel economy?
It seems to me that the taxation system should try to account for externalities like pollution and try to stay away from penalties based purely on subjective bias.
Well duh, because whatever the number of miles you drive a year, your emissions are less if you drive a more fuel efficient car. Are we to reduce CO2 emissions or just travel volumes? *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
If fuel taxes make you later decide it was a bad idea to buy the car because you didn't take into account the cost to own but only the cost to buy you can scrap the car and you've already paid tax on the environmental impact of building it. When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
"Were those transfigured drum cans art? Though clearly not part of the institutional artworld, they were just as obviously part of an installation work of deliberate design aimed at providing experiences that could be described as meaningful, thought-provoking, and aesthetically provocative. And the deliberative design of this installation suggests that it was obviously "about something" (a condition Danto deems necessary for being art). I think a pragmatist aesthetic could permit this possibility"
I think a pragmatist aesthetic could permit this possibility"
And thus I have taken a stand in that debate too. (No, not really, I just googled up some oil drums as art. This and this was the first thing I found. I doubt either of their drums are filled, but it would not make it less arty if they were.) Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
I would prefer to more tightly couple the problem and the cost of the problem. If the problem is the burning of oil, then the tax should be applied to that part of the process, not the device that actually does the burning...
Upthread, I entered into a discussion of the merits of taxing environmental externalities purely on the basis of their environmental impact vs. taxing based on both environmental and social considerations.
The short version of my stance is that in the ideal world, environmental taxes should serve environmental concerns and redistributive taxes should serve to redistribute the wealth. In the real world, however, there is a realpolitik argument for not making environmental taxes too regressive and not hitting necessary subsistence goods too hard.
But the real issue are not gas taxes. The real issue is the lack of taxes on oil consumption outside the traffic sector. Just recently I read, that a representative of the German real estate business said, oil prices are not yet high enough that it would be a good investment to reinsulate older houses. But here clearly the 'ecological movement' has a strong bias against cars. Other waste is doesn't matter.
And what kind of additional sales taxes are there in other countries?
The measure is not at all regressive, it is progressive, although still selective. And that is a very big problem. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
I entirely agree that gas and coal (and to a lesser degree, electricity) should also be taxed. They already are, by the way, to a lower degree. As is mineral oil for heating, see here and here.
So your statement
But the real issue are not gas taxes. The real issue is the lack of taxes on oil consumption outside the traffic sector.
It is most wrong because these are all real issues. And the 'ecological movement' is addressing all of these issues. At least the weatherisation of homes is something I hear about a lot, even from the current German government.
gas and coal (and to a lesser degree, electricity) should also be taxed. They already are, by the way, to a lower degree.
All of these are done by the Ökosteuer, which the CDU used to oppose strenuously. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
The fact, that the gov speaks about houses is no contradiction to that, but a support. In general I'm not unhappy with the gov's environmental policies, I was talking only about what Mr. Tiefensee said. And it is of course no support for your statement that the 'ecological movement' is addressing all the issues, as the current gov doesn't contain people I would count as part of that, while the previous gov did contain such people, and obviously did not deal with the house insulation issues in a way, that only small changes would be enough now. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
As I write downthread, the current programme started in 2001... and all four ministers of the responsible ministry during Schröder's time (Müntefering, Klimmt, Bodewig, Stolpe) were SPD ministers, so funny thing you think the Greens should have acted. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
I repeat the obvious: the Greens didn't have the ministry to act with. It was nice enough to have Trittin battle Clement over the responsibility for energy policy, with Trittin controlling the feed-in law. Pressure is another thing, and there was pressure and there was effect - I repeat that that programme started in 2001 -, though it is one thing when the pressure comes from the senior coalition partner and another when it is a small one.
will be happy if I put the responisbility of the likely Bahn privatisation mostly on the SPD
Happy I won't be, but they are deep in responsibility. *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
And it is of course no support for your statement that the 'ecological movement' is addressing all the issues, as the current gov doesn't contain people I would count as part of that, while the previous gov did contain such people, and obviously did not deal with the house insulation issues in a way, that only small changes would be enough now.
Gebäudesanierungspaket Verschärfung der Energieeinsparverordnung (EnEV) Energieausweis für Gebäude KfW-Gebäudesanierungsprogramm verlässlich ausfinanzieren Förderprogramm der technischen Gebäudeausstattung Steuerliche Abschreibung von Sanierungsmaßnahmen
I presume you meant car, not gas taxes. I think the opposite: as Tiefensee himself suggests, the idiots won't move on kerosene tax if there is no global move; an EU-wide car tax harmonisation is then more likely.
A gas guzzler driven 25 km a week emits much much less CO2 than a more reasonable car driven 500 km a week.
So what? If you only want to drive 25 km a week, driving a Smart still means less CO2 emissions than driving a H2. These are separate issues. Both fuel taxes targeting absolute emissions and car taxes targeting specific emissions will work towards reduced consumption, and thus I support both.
Just recently I read, that a representative of the German real estate business said, oil prices are not yet high enough that it would be a good investment to reinsulate older houses.
Nice anecdote. However, I recall Germany is a leading country in building insulation, and there were a number of programmes. (I'm now off to watch something on telly, but will look up some sources later tonight.) *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
German construction code involves prescriptions on heat insulation since 1978, strengthened successively. In addition, there have been and are subsidies for building renovation, aimed at the 73% of the 17.3 million homes in Germany that were built before. Between 1990 and 2005, despite continuing single family homes expansion especially in the East, these measures led to an overall 13% reduction of CO2 emissions from [heating] homes.
The current program for building insulation is the CO2-Gebäudesanierungsprogramm of the KfW ( = CO2 building renovation program of the Credit Institute for Reconstruction [<-post-WWII origins]). It was started by the Schröder government in 2001, but enhanced in 2006 and 2007. In fact, the responsible ministry is Tiefensee's.
The program isd primarily aimed at homeowners. Budget is presently over a billion annually. In 2006, 1.5 billion of credit subventions went into credits of 9.6 billion in credits and 11 billion in investments to renovate 265,000 homes. (If you do the calculation, at this rate, it would take half a century to finish with pre-1978 homes. Faster would be better, but already this is respetable; I wonder what other country has something better.) *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
...credit subventions went into expenditures of... *Lunatic*, n. One whose delusions are out of fashion.
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