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My recent comment on the problem of the "tyranny of the majority" in a democracy with regard to conservation led to a request that I expand this into a separate diary.
So, let me repost your comment here:
Democracy is at fault I'm afraid the populace takes the blame for the current mess. One of the flaws of democratic societies is that elected officials have to respond to the will of the majority. If the majority votes to walk off a cliff, then over the nation goes. The west depends upon a capitalist/consumerist economic system and all efforts are aimed at fostering this. This ranges from education (where we teach students how to be good consumers) to advertising and mass media, subsidies for oligopolies (to make them more "efficient") and even colonial and neo-colonial foreign policies. This has been going on ever since it was discovered early in the industrial revolution that textile factories could quickly produce more goods than actually needed. Thus was born all the psychological tricks to create demand - fashion, status, obsolescence, etc. The kind of person that goes into government or business, and succeeds, is the kind who best understands this social system and can operate the levers of power to advantage. Notice that autocracies never have achieved the standard of living of the democracies. With no public to answer to the leaders enrich themselves and let the rest of society languish. In this latest second Gilded Age, any socialist or environmentalist concerns have been swept aside. The power of money has seeped into every corner of society, so that it is rare to find an academic or even clergyman of any note who questions the basic premises of capitalism. I can't recall a single instance where a society sacrificed in anticipation of a disaster and used the saved resources to make the future better. Societies are reactive, not proactive. Could a better leader bring people forward and make them change their framework of belief? Perhaps. You could claim that Gandhi managed to reform the Indian political regime with a minimum of violence (at least compared to other revolutions), but he didn't manage to reform the economic system - a much more difficult task. Obviously people are hungry for an inspiring leader, hence the appeal of Obama, but I claim that the web of control which permeates modern society means that an individual can do little on his own. People want change, but they don't know of what sort and are unwilling to make any sacrifices of their own. It is now the 50th anniversary of Pogo's saying: "We have met the enemy and he is us." He was talking about pollution, and even that hasn't gotten better. I see no peaceful nor painless paths.
I'm afraid the populace takes the blame for the current mess. One of the flaws of democratic societies is that elected officials have to respond to the will of the majority.
If the majority votes to walk off a cliff, then over the nation goes. The west depends upon a capitalist/consumerist economic system and all efforts are aimed at fostering this. This ranges from education (where we teach students how to be good consumers) to advertising and mass media, subsidies for oligopolies (to make them more "efficient") and even colonial and neo-colonial foreign policies.
This has been going on ever since it was discovered early in the industrial revolution that textile factories could quickly produce more goods than actually needed. Thus was born all the psychological tricks to create demand - fashion, status, obsolescence, etc.
The kind of person that goes into government or business, and succeeds, is the kind who best understands this social system and can operate the levers of power to advantage.
Notice that autocracies never have achieved the standard of living of the democracies. With no public to answer to the leaders enrich themselves and let the rest of society languish.
In this latest second Gilded Age, any socialist or environmentalist concerns have been swept aside. The power of money has seeped into every corner of society, so that it is rare to find an academic or even clergyman of any note who questions the basic premises of capitalism.
I can't recall a single instance where a society sacrificed in anticipation of a disaster and used the saved resources to make the future better. Societies are reactive, not proactive. Could a better leader bring people forward and make them change their framework of belief? Perhaps.
You could claim that Gandhi managed to reform the Indian political regime with a minimum of violence (at least compared to other revolutions), but he didn't manage to reform the economic system - a much more difficult task.
Obviously people are hungry for an inspiring leader, hence the appeal of Obama, but I claim that the web of control which permeates modern society means that an individual can do little on his own. People want change, but they don't know of what sort and are unwilling to make any sacrifices of their own.
It is now the 50th anniversary of Pogo's saying: "We have met the enemy and he is us."
He was talking about pollution, and even that hasn't gotten better. I see no peaceful nor painless paths.
I'm afraid you [starvid] grossly misunderestimate the phenomenal blockheadness of many politicians, all the more as you go towards to the top. Not to say they are all idiots. You actually find a lot of smart and dedicated in the lower rungs. But the political rat race rewards the apparatchiks who have no other venue for social promotion and the smart and dedicated set just bug off to better careers outside of politics where they can have a life without having to deal with the blockheads.
Not to say they are all idiots. You actually find a lot of smart and dedicated in the lower rungs. But the political rat race rewards the apparatchiks who have no other venue for social promotion and the smart and dedicated set just bug off to better careers outside of politics where they can have a life without having to deal with the blockheads.
Our governments are totally clueless - or in denial, or wilfully incompetent, your pick - about the most fundamental threat to our (non-negotiable) way of life.
I got from your comment that, by and large, politicians are giving society the policies it votes for, and thus society has to take the blame for clueless, denialist or incompetent policies - and to a large extent, I agree.
When you see the outraged reactions of people to suggestions of increased gas taxes, it's hard not to think that smart energy policies are unlikely to be enacted - unless, as was recently pointed out (by François?), we are forced to by a crisis. Societies are reactive, not proactive, was the expression used, and politicians pander to that. In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
The best comment about democracy from the US in over a decade was from Howard Dean, who said that just voting barely gets you a pass. People seem to have this peculiar idea that democracy = voting, but in fact democracy means citizen involvement.
If you all you do is vote, all you'll get is nothing much.
This secret has been systematically hidden away over the last few decades, but it's key to reintroducing active democracy and making non-entities like Piebalgs accountable for their lack of insight.
The US has made a start, but the netroots has been cleverly co-opted by Obama, who is a charismatic leader, but not - I think - a true democrat.
What makes Obama successful is a combination of personal charisma and the illusion of personal involvement. In Obama's campaign it's only an illusion, because knocking on doors won't give people a say in policy. He's converting a hunger for citizen participation into grunt work. But he's not promising that he's going to listen to the people who are doing that work.
In a true democracy you'd have charismatic leaders - not much seems to happen without them - but you'd also have explicit mechanisms for dialogue and involvement. The mechanisms for mandates which we have now are poor substitutes.
One of the dirty little secrets of politics is that politicians exist so that the population as a whole doesn't have to take personal responsibility for political consequences.
So I'm not sure people are ready for this. The idea that democracy is as much about sharing individual and personal responsibility for outcomes as it is about mandating policy seems to be a novel one.
But you can't have true democracy without personal involvement. This doesn't mean that everyone has to be involved in every decision, but that there have to be paths and mechanisms for public dialogue and public decision making which aren't just popularity contests.
You know, I find that political involvement in the UK boils down to the same thing: "come down to <obscure place> to canvass for <obscure candidate> and help us win the by-election". I somehow find the idea of knocking on doors of people I don't know and are not even my neighbours to ask them to vote for someone I know close to nothing about other than they are members of my same party strangely unappealing.
Of course, political involvement in Spain where we don't have single-seat constituencies but party lists is even poorer around elections - though we seem to have a thriving culture of public demonstrations. The problem with that one is that when it gets too big it gets coopted by the politicians. When there are massive demonstrations after a deadly attack by ETA and government representatives are at the front of it, it makes you wonder who the government is appealing to... themselves? When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
The most frequent objection is a variety of libertarianism in having your "freedom" not to vote infringed. I even specify that each office should have a selection for "none of the above" or abstain, so that one could register a protest.
I can only conclude that the real objection is that being required to participate would force people to consider their choices a bit more carefully and remove the excuse that "it's not my fault, I didn't vote for him".
Australia has mandatory voting and people seem to like it. Whether it produces better office holders is impossible to tell. Policies not Politics ---- Daily Landscape
It's an extreme case of Darwinian selection. The political rat race gets so efficient that it ends up selecting people whose only real skill is the political rat race. That is the point I wanted to see developed in its own diary - unlike the other failures of democracy listed in this diary, this seems to be a structural failure mode of a developed democracy. And I seem to recall that Alexis de Tocqueville may have predicted it, though I have not been able to google the reference. When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
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