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Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape
by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 11:13:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I actually support his meta-comment: the diary you posted and the comment that you wrote earlier (and which led to the diary request) were not on the same topic.

I got from your comment that, by and large, politicians are giving society the policies it votes for, and thus society has to take the blame for clueless, denialist or incompetent policies - and to a large extent, I agree.

When you see the outraged reactions of people to suggestions of increased gas taxes, it's hard not to think that smart energy policies are unlikely to be enacted - unless, as was recently pointed out (by François?), we are forced to by a crisis. Societies are reactive, not proactive, was the expression used, and politicians pander to that.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 05:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
People were equally outraged about the Iraq war. Outrage is easy to manufacture or harness. The problem is more that only certain kinds of outrage are being supported and manipulated.

The best comment about democracy from the US in over a decade was from Howard Dean, who said that just voting barely gets you a pass. People seem to have this peculiar idea that democracy = voting, but in fact democracy means citizen involvement.

If you all you do is vote, all you'll get is nothing much.

This secret has been systematically hidden away over the last few decades, but it's key to reintroducing active democracy and making non-entities like Piebalgs accountable for their lack of insight.

The US has made a start, but the netroots has been cleverly co-opted by Obama, who is a charismatic leader, but not - I think - a true democrat.

What makes Obama successful is a combination of personal charisma and the illusion of personal involvement. In Obama's campaign it's only an illusion, because knocking on doors won't give people a say in policy. He's converting a hunger for citizen participation into grunt work. But he's not promising that he's going to listen to the people who are doing that work.

In a true democracy you'd have charismatic leaders - not much seems to happen without them - but you'd also have explicit mechanisms for dialogue and involvement. The mechanisms for mandates which we have now are poor substitutes.

One of the dirty little secrets of politics is that politicians exist so that the population as a whole doesn't have to take personal responsibility for political consequences.

So I'm not sure people are ready for this. The idea that democracy is as much about sharing individual and personal responsibility for outcomes as it is about mandating policy seems to be a novel one.

But you can't have true democracy without personal involvement. This doesn't mean that everyone has to be involved in every decision, but that there have to be paths and mechanisms for public dialogue and public decision making which aren't just popularity contests.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:28:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What makes Obama successful is a combination of personal charisma and the illusion of personal involvement. In Obama's campaign it's only an illusion, because knocking on doors won't give people a say in policy. He's converting a hunger for citizen participation into grunt work. But he's not promising that he's going to listen to the people who are doing that work.

You know, I find that political involvement in the UK boils down to the same thing: "come down to <obscure place> to canvass for <obscure candidate> and help us win the by-election". I somehow find the idea of knocking on doors of people I don't know and are not even my neighbours to ask them to vote for someone I know close to nothing about other than they are members of my same party strangely unappealing.

Of course, political involvement in Spain where we don't have single-seat constituencies but party lists is even poorer around elections - though we seem to have a thriving culture of public demonstrations. The problem with that one is that when it gets too big it gets coopted by the politicians. When there are massive demonstrations after a deadly attack by ETA and government representatives are at the front of it, it makes you wonder who the government is appealing to... themselves?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 04:39:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interestingly, every time I propose that the US go to mandatory voting I get a slew of objections. This happens even when I also propose a variety of technical changes so that voting is less burdensome: online, mail in, multi-day etc.

The most frequent objection is a variety of libertarianism in having your "freedom" not to vote infringed. I even specify that each office should have a selection for "none of the above" or abstain, so that one could register a protest.

I can only conclude that the real objection is that being required to participate would force people to consider their choices a bit more carefully and remove the excuse that "it's not my fault, I didn't vote for him".

Australia has mandatory voting and people seem to like it. Whether it produces better office holders is impossible to tell.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 10:27:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not just that politicians are giving society the policies it votes for, and thus society has to take the blame for clueless, denialist or incompetent policies but that The kind of person that goes into government or business, and succeeds, is the kind who best understands this social system and can operate the levers of power to advantage and, moreover, the political rat race rewards the apparatchiks who have no other venue for social promotion and the smart and dedicated set just bug off to better careers outside of politics where they can have a life without having to deal with the blockheads.

It's an extreme case of Darwinian selection. The political rat race gets so efficient that it ends up selecting people whose only real skill is the political rat race. That is the point I wanted to see developed in its own diary - unlike the other failures of democracy listed in this diary, this seems to be a structural failure mode of a developed democracy. And I seem to recall that Alexis de Tocqueville may have predicted it, though I have not been able to google the reference.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 04:43:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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