Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
I've long believed that property tax on vehicles should be, in part at least, based on fuel efficiency/engine size to help lower that long term demand.

In any event, where would the funds come from for this incentive packaging?  What would we sacrifice, as a society, to do this?

Now, if we were willing to start taxing gasoline in a serious (escalating) way and use a portion of the resources to help drive energy efficiency in the vehicle fleet, perhaps that would do it. On the other hand, amid screaming outrage (and real pain) over escalating gasoline prices (all over the globe), does anyone see the US political will for a serious move to augment gasoline taxes?

Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart. NOW!!!

by a siegel (siegeadATgmailIGNORETHISdotPLEASEcom) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 08:58:26 AM EST
France has introduced this year a fairly simple system of bonus/malus for new cars linked to their CO2 emissions (if below 120g/km, you get a few hundred euros bonus, if above 200g/km you pay a couple thousand euro penalty).

The change in the kinds of vehicles sold this year has, so far, been remarkable, with a massive boom for smaller cars (especially those with the best engines, emissions-wise), large drops for bigger cars and more polluting engines, and a massive effort by manufacturers to provide models that fall jsut below the threshholds.

When half-year statistics come out next month, I'll try to do a post.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 09:20:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
CO2 emissions

I've always wondered what the difference is between "CO2 emissions" and "carbon-based fuel consumption".

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 02:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Emissions are the by-products of consumption.  

x amount of coal (carbon fuel) produces x/n emissions, where n is: all the stuff that isn't emissions.  


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 01:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the US people will have a huge fit if you attempt to "discourage new car sales" by adding a, gasp, tax to them.  That's all anyone will hear.  Remember, Americans are idiots.

The above idea of subsidizing trade-ins and giving people a break on the "loss" is a great idea because it doesn't cost much and makes people think they're getting something for free.  I'd also suggest that controlling the size of auto loans is a good idea too, but that's also sacrilegious.

If you want to be genuinely progressive you'll find a way to funnel a substantial amount of money into public transit during a gas-guzzler trade-in program.  If you can generate a billion or two dollars in any given metro area you can seriously jumpstart mass-transit infrastructure.

by paving on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 03:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the second time you say that in this thread.

It's overstating the point a bit, isn't it?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 03:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
unfortunately, no it isnt.

70% of them are morons. i know i just left there beacause i couldnt stand it any more.when i tried to tell them that national health insurance works in europe, i was called a communist. when i tried to tell them that public transport works in europe i was called a moron, this by people who have never been here. i can go on and on and on, but yes for the most part they are total morons. and they are going to pay a terrible price for it.


Life is not a dress rehearsal

by johnfire (johnfire@christopherrehm.com) on Thu Jun 19th, 2008 at 05:42:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, we're going to pay a price, too.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 19th, 2008 at 06:07:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, but europe is better set up to handle what is coming. better support network, better outlook on  the idea we are all in it together. i hope

Life is not a dress rehearsal
by johnfire (johnfire@christopherrehm.com) on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 02:57:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Japan has had such a system for a long time.

The bigger the engine, the higher your yearly car tax, and the higher your twice yearly car-inspection fee.  These are not trivial taxes.  I pay 35000 yen a year or so in car taxes for my small 4-cylinder engine, around 1300 cc or so.  Above 1450 cc you end up in a different tax bracket, and have to pay somewhere around 100000 yen a year in car taxes.  And there are even higher brackets as well.

On the other hand, if you're willing to put up with a truly tiny car and an engine no larger than 500 cc, there's a special Keizai-kuruma bracket, with negligable car taxes.

Sadly, those k-cars are increasingly replacing bicycle use, as the younger generations are too lazy to ride anywhere, and as the suburban and rural infrastructure has been optimized for car usage along American lines.

by Zwackus on Thu Jun 19th, 2008 at 05:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a siegel: I've long believed that property tax on vehicles should be, in part at least, based on fuel efficiency/engine size to help lower that long term demand.

China to raise car tax to spur fuel efficiency
(Bloomberg)
Updated: 2006-03-22 17:31

China will adjust its tax rates on automobiles, motorcycles and rubber tires. China's government said it will adjust its tax rates on automobiles, motorcycles and rubber tires to encourage the use of vehicles with smaller engines that burn less fuel.

Beginning on April 1, the top tax rate for automobiles will be raised to 20 percent from 8 percent for vehicles with engine displacements larger than 2 liters, according to a statement posted on the Ministry of Finance's Web site.

The government of the world's third-largest vehicle market is trying to encourage consumers to choose cars with smaller engines to cut fuel consumption as rising incomes and falling car prices make cars affordable to more people. Individual vehicle ownership more than doubled to 13.65 million units in 2004 from 6.25 million in 2000, according to the China Council for the Promotion of International Trade.



... all progress depends on the unreasonable mensch.
(apologies to G.B. Shaw)
by marco on Fri Jun 20th, 2008 at 05:12:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My Espace (a large family MPV) has a 4-cylinder 2l engine. It's a big engine by any standard.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 06:26:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris: My Espace (a large family MPV) has a 4-cylinder 2l engine. It's a big engine by any standard.

Thanks for the reality check:

Lawmakers lobbying Chinese govt for small car incentives? at China Car Times

Lawmakers in Beijing appear to be lobbying the government to introduce incentives to further the small car market in China. Last year just over 700,000 small cars (i.e. cars with engines less than 1.3l) were sold in China, which accounted for only 11.6% of total vehicle sales in China. High gasoline prices, and worsening air pollution seems to be the major factor in pushing for incentives to ignite the small car market. The sales of small displacement cars in China did actually fall in 2007, whilst larger sedan sales rose. Furthermore, Chinese consumers only bought 250,000 vehicles in 2007 that had a displacement of less than 1000cc. The lobbying lawmakers are asking the central government to lower, or cancel sales taxes on small displacement vehicles, make road tax cheaper and perhaps even introduce free parking zones for super mini drivers.


... all progress depends on the unreasonable mensch.
(apologies to G.B. Shaw)
by marco on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 at 09:25:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Occasional Series