Sasha Hemon, or, Turning sad European Lemons into delicious American Lemonade! | 33 comments (33 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 0)

That was not a rhetorical question, btw.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Jun 25th, 2008 at 01:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 1)

They'd be Croats, Bosnian Croats to be exact, and I believe there is a certain sense of regional identity among them.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jun 25th, 2008 at 11:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 0)

This is so confusing...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 10:47:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 1)

For some time during the Yugoslav Wars, the Croat part of Bosnia configured itself as a self-proclaimed Republic of "Herceg-Bosna". There was a Muslim part, and a Serbian part, "Republika Srpska". The West managed to convince the Croats and Muslims to merge back together into a Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina which, together with the Republika Srpska makes up Bosnia and Herzegovina.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 10:54:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 0)

Oh, that makes perfect sense...

I'm being sarcastic. I used to think the term "Balkanization" just meant, "breaking up into separate parts because people refuse to get along." But it appears to be a bit more complicated, doesn't it?

Here's how I imagined it worked:

There was Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia lived Serbs, Bosnians, Croats, Slovenians and er, maybe Montenegrins and Macedonians. They fought each other for a reason I do not know and split into their respective groups. It may or may not have had something to do with Muslims...

But if there now exists a country called Bosnia and Herzegovina which is comprised of a Bosnian-Croatian piece and a Serbian piece... meaning they're all living in some kind of peace in one country (which I know is possible because they do that in my neighborhood too), what was the point of splitting Yugoslavia up into all those countries? Seems like splitting up cells and getting the same DNA in each one. And I don't even know what the ethnic or religious differences between everyone are or why they would necessitate violence and separation. Aleksandar Hemon is identifies as Bosnian, but his heritage is Ukrainian and Serbian, and he's not Muslim. I'm so confused... What the hell makes Bosnia not Croatia or Serbia, besides a map?

I wish someone with divine patience and no horses in the race would diary this.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 02:59:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 1)

Bosnia was arguably the most ethnically diverse of the Yugoslav republics and the (plurality) Bosniak population (mostly Muslim) found themselves in the cross-fire of the war between Croatia and Serbia. It was in the interest of the Bosnian Croats and the Bosniaks to federate because the Bosnian Serbs had taken 50% of the territory. See wikipedia for maps of the ethnic distribution within Bosnia.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 03:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 1)

Oh, the fact that the Croats and the Bosniaks federated doesn't mean they didn't start out ethnically cleansing each other. See Mostar.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 03:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 1)

Maybe I would be less frustrated if I stopped operating under the assumption that there is a logical reason (indefensible, but internally logical) for everyone deciding to kill each other.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 03:55:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 0)

Yes.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 03:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ze jar for ze teepz (none / 1)

If you want some fun complications of ethnicity in the Balkans and central Europe, there is this old thread at language hat :

languagehat.com: PEACHES IN CLUJ.

The Szeklers are an interesting group. They claim to be a people related to, but distinct from, the Hungarians. Their traditions claim descent from Attila's Huns, but I don't think even they believe that. (Although it's surely no less likely than descent from the Roman colonists of Dacia.)
Other theories have them as Pechenegs, as Hungarized Avars, or as an offshoot of the Magyar Hungarians themselves. The Szeklers dislike this last one BTW; they insist that they are distinct from, though closely connected to, the main Hungarian stock.
There are some fascinating peculiarities about them. For instance, before they were brought firmly under the Hapsburg crown in the 18th century, they were largely self-governing. And their basic units of government were village communes known as "tens". These is eerily reminiscent of the habit of many Central Asian horse nomads. The Mongols, for instance, organized their societies along military lines, with the squad of ten horsemen -- the "ten" -- being a basic unit.

languagehat.com: PEACHES IN CLUJ.

The Germans of Romania come in at least two flavors, BTW -- Saxons and "Flemings". The Flemings weren't actually Flemings, but they came from a different part of Germany than the Saxons, and spoke a different dialect. I have the impression that the two eventually grew together into Siebenburgerdeutsch -- both waves arrived in the middle ages, so there was time -- but I'm not completely sure of that, and welcome correction.
Oh, and there's also a small third wave of Germans from Germany who came to be mine bosses and technicians during the 19th and early 20th centuries. (Our landlord is one of those -- his grandfather was a Sudetendeutscher who came here between the wars.) This group was never more than one or two percent of the total German population before 1989, but my completely anecdotal and unscientific impression is that it's probably now more like five or ten percent of the ever-dwindling remnant German population. I'm really not sure why.
Anyhow.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 at 11:11:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sasha Hemon, or, Turning sad European Lemons into delicious American Lemonade! | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

Southern Irish disinterest in Northern Ireland affairs

The end is Nigh?

Leinster's demise and Munster's hope

Joe Biden. America's Interventionist Hero

The law of conservation of transness

Recent Diaries

Southern Irish disinterest in Northern Ireland affairs

Incident Ukrainian War Display Gets Int'l Attention

German Climate Activists Group Outlawed

Leinster's demise and Munster's hope

Joe Biden. America's Interventionist Hero

Targeted Assassinations: a Bankrupt Strategy

The end is Nigh?

Hijacking Peace by Zelensky for War Escalation

UA Drone Attack On Moscow

Rightwing Operation New EU 'Enlightenment’

Energy (and Other) Events Monthly - May 2023

May 2023

The law of conservation of transness

Neocon Years and NATO Expansion of 2008

US Provoked Conflict In Europe

U.S. Will Be Ousted From Middle-East

Settler Extremism Blessed by Jerusalem Leaders

Occasional Series