Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Obama in Berlin | 47 comments (47 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (4.00 / 3)
I completely agree that Obama is a vote-getter, if his popularity remains high during the next 18 months. But I think as well Obama will mention in his speech the 'necessity' that Europe takes more responsibility in Afghanistan.
This is walking a tightrope. Probably there will be audible objection on this issue from the audience (I think about 80% of Germans would like to withdraw as fast as possible from Afghanistan). Either he will quite strongly insist on that. Which could strongly dampen the effect as a vote-getter. Or he is weak on this, which will mean, that the US media will portray him as incapable of getting European support despite alleged pro-Europeaness.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 at 08:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (4.00 / 2)
Ah, you have it already in your piece of spiegel-online. But this is really a center piece. I can very well live without Obama speaking about health care in the US, and I disagree with spiegel's estimate, that Obama will ask for European responsibility in Iraq.
I guess so far, that Obama will not only disappoint the European left-wing, but will be a disappointment across the political spectrum, unless he becomes much more extreme in turning around US policy in climate change and militarism.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 at 08:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (none / 1)
That about Iraq was written in conditional before Obama's recent policy speech about refocusing from Iraq ( = lost) to Afghanistan ( = still winnable), so certainly, it was a wrong estimation.

Your prediction of public reaction to Obama's expected demands on Europe is shared by Karl-Theodor Freiherr/CSU, whom I cited above with "Sommertheater". (BTW I forgot to make clear: he is also criticising his own camp there, and deviates from the party line.)

Die "neue Begeisterung" der SPD für die USA sei an sich "begrüßenswert", sagte er. Allerdings bleibe abzuwarten, ob sich der "Enthusiasmus erschöpft, wenn Senator Obama in dieser oder einer künftigen Rede einen höheren deutschen Beitrag in internationalen Operationen einfordert".The "new enthusiasm" of the SPD for the USA is "welcome" in itself, he said. However, it remains to be seen whether the "enthusiasm will be exhausted once Senator Obama demands a higher German contribution to international operations in this or any future speech".

As for the German left-wing's, rather than the SPD's reaction, what I wonder about is the position of the Left Party and its voters in general. Perhaps jandsm or Jeffersonian Democrat can tell us more about the mood in the party. Would the Left Party profile itself early on with some criticism of Obama, the eventual disillusion of SPD voters with him that you and Freiherr predict could lead to some shift of balance within the German left-wing.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 at 01:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (none / 0)
I think it's unlikely Obama will go to Berlin and make these kinds of demands about Afghanistan.  That would be presumptuous at this stage of the game, far more so than wanting to speak at Brandenburg Gate.  More likely it'll be a speech about "bringing the world together" and a mix of the usual DFH and KumbayObama stuff.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 at 10:31:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (none / 1)
well, that'd be fine...

what wouldn't would be some finger-wagging exceptionalist b.s. for the redneck domestic consumption, instrumentalising europe for a purely u.s. agenda.

i wish i could totally trust obama on this, we really need an american president who doesn't pretend to look down on us, (or over-venerate us for that matter!)

on. the. level. please barry. no trumpeted platitudes about how we should do anything. (or we'll tell you where to put yer war)

some tact, m'lad! be an example of a trans-nationalistic global citizen, if you really want us to warm to your cause more than we already do...

waving that tattered global hegemon flag over here will not win you any cookies.

save it for the rubes you need votes from back home, and just be your sweet self.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 at 10:48:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (4.00 / 6)
I think, on policy, I'd focus on climate change above anything else.  Something to the effect of, "You've led, and now we're going to meet you halfway."

That would make for a good speech.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 at 10:54:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (none / 0)
I would be very surprised, if Obama would say that.
  • US citizens could take it as insult, when a potential American president doesn't speak about "America has to lead", but in terms of following (see e.g. the flag pin debate on how sensitive Americans can react on issues, which can be interpreted critically towards them) // In any case he is not yet US president. So in a way his prime audience is still the US voter.
  • if he just wants to make his German and European followers happy, the KumbayObama (as you called it) will do it perfectly well. I think he can't do much to alienate them, except speaking about Afghanistan. So no need to alienate his voters at home.


Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 at 03:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (none / 1)
yeah, that is the most pressing issue, for sure.

i don't need him to be too humble, lol, but simply for him to accent unity and good faith in the same way he does back home.

he has a lot of savvy, i expect he'll finesse this ok.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 at 03:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (4.00 / 4)
"I completely agree that Obama is a vote-getter,"

Changing the subject somewhat, now that Clinton is NOT the dem candidate, I can't believe that I'll finally vote in a Presidential election (since Carter) when the choice is NOT between the lesser of two evils.  I actually think we have a shot at a non-evil candidate for once.  IN MY LIFETIME!  Or am I being overly optimistic?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 at 08:17:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Bits from an unwritten diary 2: Sommertheater (none / 1)
Either you're too optimistic or I'm too cynical.

Putting him on par with Jimmy Carter is probably not unfair all things considered. Which is still unimpressive, but as recent US presidents go it's a big step forward.

I'm prepared to be surprised, but so far Obama doesn't look like more than a Carter with a snazzier marketing department and the advantage that the other wing of the Corporate Party has shot itself in both feet, a kneecap and one arm with an elephant gun.

Still, Obama is preferable to John "Nuke Iran" McCain.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 at 11:56:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama in Berlin | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: