Brown pretends to be tough on Russia | 38 comments (38 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Brown pretends to be tough on Russia (4.00 / 2)

As long as nobody even makes suggestions to all these questions, these ideas for a "common negotiating position" towards Russia are just pointless blather, bluster and, more to the point, a distraction.

Could the sudden desire for European cooperation be rooted in a desire to get in on some of those long-term contracts that other people have signed with Russia - only without having to actually speak with the Russians? That would be a show of uncommonly good sense, because it doesn't sound like the British are very good at speaking with Russia...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:37:17 PM EST

Nailed it in one (4.00 / 3)

This is the UK neolibs trying to free-ride on the reserves and security mechanisms put in place (and paid for) by continental Europeans.

"Solidarity", in this case, means "give me access to your reserves". We made fun of you because you paid more for your gas because of these, and now we'll make fun of you because we will take advantage of it as well.

Grrrr.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 05:26:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

A straightforward case of a nation acting in it's own self interest - and any other logic or consistency be damned. The key issue here is not to get annoyed with the UK - it is only doing what all nations do - the key thing is to ensure that it pays a fair Price for what it is looking for from the EU. Putin plays this game very well as well, and knows the score.

The meta-problem is that the EU has been giving its services and strategic advantages on the cheap - and getting nothing but abuse in return. Why doesn't Sarkozy - in his capacity as President of the EU Council and interlocutor with Russia give a speech giving the UK some home truths about what is required from Britain - e.g. fair play for French energy utilities - thus nicely serving French interests as well?

Just wait for the wails of EU bullying. The EU is not a club where everyone gets everything they want on the cheap - a message which could also, usefully, be directed at Ireland. The wails are the sound of chickens coming home to roost...

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 06:02:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not sure it's national interest (none / 1)

It's the interest of the City financiers, and of the Whitehall politicians, full stop.

And they've found it easier to buy the elites of other countries as an alternative to traditional balance fo power politics: make the elits "one of us" and presto, the trick is done.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 08:57:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not sure it's national interest (none / 0)

National interests are always defined by national elites. In a functioning democracy those elite's self interest is held somewhat in check by the electorate at large. So it is easy to buy off the national elite of (say) Georgia, where the democratic process is suspect, at best.

But why does the EU sell itself so cheap? Because there is little emotional identification with its citizenry and structural democratic constraints on it doing so. There is no sense that the EU is run by the parliament or directly elected officials and the indirect democracy conferred via the participating Governments doesn't seem to work very well in terms of generating legitimacy for the collective.

No one seem to care what Barrosso says because no one (directly) elected him and thus no one has a psychological identification with him one way or the other. He is not "our" Commission President and we take no responsibility for what he does.

Likewise Sarkozy will always, primarily, be President of France and thus a "foreigner telling us what to do" rather than our President. Ultimately the President of the Council or Commission may have to evolve into Directly (or parliamentary) elected positions rather than appearing to emerge from conspiracies behind the closed doors of the Council.

Its more about psychology and media presentation rather than reality. It's still too easy to take no ownership of what the EU is and does - and for the EU elite to to be spineless and relatively powerless in the face of things that effect peoples fears and real lives

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 09:59:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The problem is not at the EU level (4.00 / 3)

it's continental European elites selling out on their citizens to join the ranks of the money making Anglo financial elite. Just like in the UK and US, the citizenry is duped thanks to the non stop fearmongering and distraction (oh, look, another enemy!), although patience is running thin as the ongoing looting becomes more and more obvious.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 10:40:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem is not at the EU level (none / 0)

That too. Either way its a problem of a lack of democratic political control of the means of production and media presentation. We have got to think strategically about how political institutions can be strengthened vis a vis economic institutions (corporations).

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 11:40:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

If I may propose a somewhat heretical solution, why don't we just cut a deal with the Brits: They get in on the long-term stuff on the cheap without having to pay upfront for the services already rendered (although they of course will have to pay for the continued maintenance and expansion to cover their own needs). In exchange, they STFU about Russia and let the competent professionals deal with them, and generally start behaving like responsible adults.

I mean, if they keep this crap up they might end up doing irrepairable damage to European interests in Russia and the Caucasus. Surely even quite a steep price would be worth it to shut them up? The fact that London might freeze over would be small consolation if the stupid gits did manage to restart the Cold War...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

The fact that London might freeze over would be small consolation if the stupid gits did manage to restart the Cold War...

puts a new twist on the phrase 'cold war', huh

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:47:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

That seems a high price to pay for nothing much in return. If good behaviour is a currency, it's the kind that can be minted for free. Come the next big European issue, what's to stop the Brits from agitating once again to get their way?

There's no better teacher than reality. Wisdom comes from suffering the consequences of one's acts, if one is too stupid to learn from others first.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 09:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

A clause in the agreement specifying that if the a party to the agreement "recklessly endangers" the energy security of its neighbours, it ceases to be a party to the agreement.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:21:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

How about something with teeth? Like, the British govt could perhaps auction off its remaining stakes in various British energy companies, as a gesture of goodwill to the very foreign energy firms who would be asked in return to supply the British market at a fair market price?

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

I dislike the notion of "auctioning off" bits and pieces of the strategic infrastructure - to anyone. I'd prefer having a joint, multilateral operation - possibly at the EU level. There'll be a limit to how much the Brits could screw it up, because the countries that have so far behaved more or less responsibly would remain in the majority.

Of course, that would give them yet another forum to throw tantrums in...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 03:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nailed it in one (none / 0)

I dislike the notion of "auctioning off" bits and pieces of the strategic infrastructure - to anyone.

It's not a strategic loss if it's European partner companies that buy it up, though. The whole point of an EU level energy supply guarantee would be that the British government is incapable of planning ahead, and is dependent on the expertise of foreign companies and governments to sort out its own mess.

That can best be done by giving up the remaining unprivatised part of its assets to those foreign companies, since 1) it would lower the bariers to entry into the British market, 2) it would guarantee no misplaced political meddling into what must be done over many years to guarantee energy supply for the British public, and 3) it would actually offer a real incentive to those foreign firms to adapt their current energy distribution plans.

I'd prefer having a joint, multilateral operation - possibly at the EU level. There'll be a limit to how much the Brits could screw it up, because the countries that have so far behaved more or less responsibly would remain in the majority.

But where's the beef? Why should EU energy companies, often government owned, agree to such a thing? They have their own mandates, which require serving their own citizens first.

The ones in trouble are the Brits. It's up to them to offer something tangible in return for getting their balls out of the fire. What have the Brits done lately for the EU? What can they pay to solve their energy woes?

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 03:57:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Brown pretends to be tough on Russia | 38 comments (38 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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