The Austrian Experiment.... | 15 comments (15 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The Austrian Experiment.... (4.00 / 5)

I think that there's a lot to be said for bundling suffrage with all the other rights and obligations that are unlocked when one turns 18 (in most countries). I am not convinced that it makes sense to have people vote on finance bills who cannot enter into many types of binding financial obligations under their own signature, to name just one example.

And before arguing that 16-yrs olds should enter into full citizenship, bear in mind that full citizenship includes such things as the right to enter into military service, the right to go into debt and a variety of other sharp, pointy corners of adult life that minors are currently protected from by virtue of their "citizen-lite" status.

It is certainly possible to make the case that 16-yrs-olds are sufficiently mature to handle the rights, risks and obligations the come with full citizenship. I am not convinced that the case is sound, but I'm not convinced that it's not either.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:40:10 PM EST

Re: The Austrian Experiment.... (none / 1)

In the UK at least 16 yr olds can enter the army (as my cousin has just done) and alose enter into many financial obligations.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Austrian Experiment.... (none / 1)

But only with parental approval, I think, and (in accordance with the UN convention of the rights on the child) they are not supposed to be sent into combat before 18. Of course, there have been mistakes.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Austrian Experiment.... (none / 1)

I disagree with the bundling. These are some of the rules and age limits in Sweden.

Barnombudsmannen / Åldersgränser
12 år Om dina föräldrar vill att du ska byta efternamn krävs ditt godkännande. Du får ha lättare arbeten, till exempel att sälja jultidningar eller majblommor. Om du fyllt tolv år får du inte adopteras utan att du själv går med på adoptionen. Men även innan du fyllt tolv så har du rätt att säga vad du tycker.		12 years Your approval is needed for your parents to change your last name. You can have a lighter work, for example selling paper subscriptions. You can not be adopted without your approval.
13 år Du får ha ett lättare arbete högst 12 timmar i veckan.		13 years You can have lighter work at most 12 hours a week.
15 år Du blir straffmyndig. Det betyder att du kan straffas för ett brott. Det är tillåtet att ha sex med någon efter att man fyllt 15 år. Du får köra moped (klass 1). Du får se barnförbjudna filmer på bio. Om din cykel eller moped har lämpliga säten, får du skjutsa en person. Personen måste vara under 10 år.		15 years You can be punished for a crime. You are allowed to have sex. You can drive a moped (class 1). You can see all movies at the cinema. If your bike or moped is suitably equiped, you can have a passenger. The passenger has to be under 10 years old.
16 år Skolplikten upphör när du gått ut nionde klass. Du får ta ett normalt, riskfritt arbete, det vill säga jobba 40 timmar i veckan. Men arbetsgivaren har lite mer ansvar för dig som inte är myndig än för dina myndiga arbetskamrater. Du får starta egen firma. Du får själv bestämma över de pengar du tjänat. Du får ta körkort för lätt motorcykel och traktor. Du får börja övningsköra bil. Dina föräldrar får inte längre barnbidrag för dig. Nu får du istället studiebidrag.		16 years Once you have finished ninth grade you are no longer obliged to attend school. You can have a normal, risk-free job, that is 40 hours a week. Though your employer has extra responsibility for you. You can start your own company. You can decide freely what to do with your money. You can get a license for light motorbike or tractor. You can start to practise driving a car. Your parents no longer get child money from the government, instead you get a studying stipend (note: as long as you attend high school).
18 år Du blir myndig. Du får gifta dig. Du får rösta. Du får köpa cigaretter. Du får köpa alkohol på restaurang och öl i affärer. Du får ta körkort för bil och tung motorcykel. Enligt lagen slutar dina föräldrars underhållsskyldighet när du fyllt 18 år. Det betyder att de inte är skyldiga att försörja dig längre. Men om du fortfarande går i skolan fortsätter föräldrarnas underhållsskyldighet. De ska i så fall försörja dig så länge du går på gymnasiet eller tills du fyller 21 år.		18 years You are an adult. You can get married. You can vote. You can buy cigarettes. You can buy alcohol at restaurants and beer in shops. You can get a drivers license for car or heavy motorbike. Your parents are no longer obliged to support you, though their obligation remains untill you finish high school or turn 21.

Adding, if male you get called to military service at 18, though that is not considered a right as such. You have no right to enter the army, you have an obligation to serve if called. And at 20 you can finally buy a bottle of whisky in a store.

My point is that the rights today come little by little (in Sweden and I presume also in Denmark), and moving "You can vote" from 18 to 16 does not really upset this picture. Interestingly enough, 16 is financial adulthood in Sweden.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 11:56:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Austrian Experiment.... (none / 0)

Most of them are similar in Denmark, but the financial rights and the driver's licence practise are in the 18-yr bracket instead of the 16-yr bracket, making it rather more top-heavy.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 01:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Austrian Experiment.... | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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