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It will not surprise you that while the EU can deal with much of labour market regulation by majority decision but needs unanimity in the Council on tax issues.

I disagree that the only time rules should be harmonised is when there's a case of countries lowering regulation to gain competitive advantage. The common market can also cause inertia in social policies when change is needed to deal with new challenges (such as a demographic downturn). And as Cyrille notes, there are other European aspects like freedom of location in the labour market.

If you only allow fathers to take this then you set up a potential (further) point of conflict between them and their employers. Maternity leave is not optional either, as far as I know. The only point of this freedom, for the men's side, is to retain a comparative advantage in the labour market over women (or retain parity with singles).

As for providing more money to parents, sure, though I would say Germany needs to spend equal attention to providing some things (e.g. day care) for free.

What I wanted to lift out of the Swedish example is that you could have some flexibility in how to divide the 36 weeks (e.g. provide a minimum of 14 weeks per partner). Otherwise, I don't know whether and to what extent the 18 months in Sweden are optional. But there's something to be said for a mix of optional unpaid leave and mandatory paid leave.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 06:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maternity leave is not optional either, as far as I know.
This is for the protection of the health of both the mother and the child. The time of the forced leave should take medical considerations as main aspect. Wrt Germany, the commission's suggestion would even increase this time for mothers. Further parential time should be volunatarily.

The idea of thinking of groups women against men is collectivist in my view and irrelevant. Your suggestions creates more equality between men and women on a statistical basis, but create huge problems for parents compared to people without children. To tell a fresh mother, not only she has damaged her career, but the career of her husband, too, is not exactly something she will appreciate, even if the profiteer in her husbands company is a woman.
Situations are different from family to family, but often fresh fathers work more than before, to get extra pay for extra hours. This possibility would be taken away completely.
As well currently many women expect, that family plans are coordinated with their career plannings, as there are times, when a leave fits better, and times, when it fits worse. With a forced paternity leave, every couple would have to consider both careers carefully. Already now university educated people have less children in Germany, and probably in most European countries, than none-academics. This last aspect of a inhomogenous career is especially a problem for high qualified people, who have something one can reasonably call a career. Academic women are more over disproportionally in jobs like teaching and other public jobs, where a leave has less negative effect than academic men, so that this fit-to-career planning would have to be increased.

As for providing more money to parents, sure, though I would say Germany needs to spend equal attention to providing some things (e.g. day care) for free.
I'm fundamentally opposed to free day care. This is an assault on the classical family. That is not freedom to chose between staying at home and letting care for the children, when one decision is subsidiesed with hundreds of Euros per month and the other not. Parents should be free in such a decision, but I personally would of course favour the model of the classical family over unsymbiotic forms of family live.
And of course plenty of proprietary and organic solutions may be there, which can only be applied from case to case like caring grandparents, neighbours, telework, workplace built-in-childcare, or even a nanny ,into which is not tapped by any one-size-fits-it-all assumption.

Given that in Germany well-off families with children are strongly overtaxed relative to none-children tax payers, and that the budgets are negotiated with a certain focus on previous budgets, so that childcare is in confilct with any direct monetary payments to parents, it means parents with differnt solutions are the ones who practically pay for those, who send their children to child-care or for extended parential leave (especially the paid one, as classical families will not get a cent for their second or third or fourth child for the paid maternity leave).

when change is needed to deal with new challenges (such as a demographic downturn)
If this measures are ultimatively not financed by taking it from elsewhere than from families, these suggestions will make the demographic challenges more pronounced than the current challenges. And the demographic challenges are different in various countries. E.g. I don't see any need to stimulate fertility in most west European countries, while the Balitic states face a population implosion. One answer to these very different countries is not the right answer, regardless how this answer looks like.

The only point of this freedom
Freedom is a value by itself, and therefore the default. You need a substancial cause to diminish it.

, for the men's side, is to retain a comparative advantage in the labour market over women (or retain parity with singles).
As I wrote, there are other considerations than pure men-women issues. It is a point, but not the only.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 at 10:58:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting comment - however, you seem to argue mostly about mothers with choice, who are in relationships and who have family to help them. What about the single mothers, who can not afford day care and still have to work? What about those women with no family - and yes, the do exist! As we have discussed before, it is often the single mother that ends up in poverty. So, I do think if we want women to choose to become mothers, avoid abortions, we also need to give them a support system that will help them to provide a caring environment for the child. This is now often not the case.
by Fran on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 at 11:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Instead of free day care, you can pay out cash. The full costs of one month 'free' child care are between 500 and 1000 Euro, depending of course on the rent/purchase price of appropriate facilities, which differs regionally.
Then people can decide what they want to do with that cash. As you anyhow need a high care-personal/children ration in low age day care, it can be provided by private companies sufficiently flexible to the needs of parents, who are willing to pay. A single mother would get by this the chance at all to chose e.g. a part time job, instead of a full time job which would be her only choice if there is free day-care, but no cash pay out.
With regard to the discussion of paid parential leaves, the consideration of child poverty would be an argument to make payments of fixed amounts of money, or even paying extra cash for the poorest families, not a payment proportional to former income, after the medically advisable leave, which clearly should be paid according to income. Further payments of this type I see clearly as a sign, that the fight is about feminist ideology and not about solidarity with the poor. an alternative explaination is the despise of people with low income as expressed by such a word as "Frühförderungsabschreckungsprämie" (see last penultimate paragraph, I guess you speak German living in Switzerland)  from Christa Sager, vice head of the green faction in the Budestag, which says, she doesn't believe that low income people act according to what is best for their children and parents in general are incapable to educate their low age children (despite the totally crappy education of most public child care nannys in Germany).

I don't think it is fair, to compare a significant subsidy with no action at all, but with alternative possible actions with similar costs for the public, which is not entirely composed of single mothers and multi-child families. There are plenty of people without children or only one child, which often is not such a drag on the family finances as many children. A fair solution for single mothers shouldn't ask only a fraction of the society for solidarity, but the whole society according to some form of ability to bear such a financial burden. Otherwise next time an employer might argue it is immoral to pay workers wage increases, because in China workers get less, and in Africa there are even people staving.

So, I do think if we want women to choose to become mothers,
In Germany women have in average a more pronounced wish for children than men. I'm not sure why, but there is an obvious lack of public discussion, while there is not only discussion, but even academic research, why women don't have more children. A rather common answer of child-less women with a wish for children is, that they don't find the right man for a family foundation.
Another issue is, that compared with child-rich countries like France, Germany lacks mostly many multi-child families. There are not much more child-free families. If financial considerations play a role, this is not a surprise, given the institutional framework of taxes, retirement, and pay outs. The proposed changes consolidate the existing structure or focus on women without children - often for reasons, which have nothing to do with finance -, instead of focusing on multi-child families, where financial considerations play an increasing role, as the finacial burden kicks them out of a live-style lived by there child-poor peers.
France has e.g. a strongly increased child pay for the 3rd child and a family tax splitting, which is often ignored in discussions in Germany, when taking France as good example. They have much of these other stuff as well, but France simply invests a higher share of its resources into the support of families than many other countries.

PS:
Two spiegel Articles (German), which question the quality of the German school system. Unfortunately I have nothing online about the low-age child care quality:
"Wohlfühl-Kuschel-Pädagogik geht Jungs gewaltig auf die Nerven"
Triumph der Schmetterlinge

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 at 01:47:14 PM EST
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