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Mother given seven-year jail term in incest, abuse case - The Irish Times - Thu, Jan 22, 2009

A Co Roscommon mother-of-six has been to sentenced seven years in prison after pleading guilty to incest, sexual assault and neglect of her children.

At Roscommon Circuit Court today, Judge Miriam Reynolds said she would have given the 40-year-old woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, a life sentence had she been a man.

However, Judge Reynolds said she was restricted by the terms of 1908 legal act, which carries a maximum seven-year sentence for incest cases involving women.

The woman had pleaded guilty to two counts of incest committed in June 2004 and on a date unknown between July and October 2004.

She had also pleaded guilty to two charges of sexual abuse against a son on the same dates and to neglecting and ill treating each of her six children from 1998 to 2004 .

The court yesterday heard details about the plight of the six children who, despite coming to the notice of social workers in 1996, were not into taken into care until 2004.

One of the children was sexually abused by his mother, while all of the family were forced to live in filthy conditions without sufficient food, clothing or heating.

Judge Reynolds asked why eight years elapsed during which social workers and home helps regularly visited the home before the children were removed from "what seems to have been an awful household".

Social workers believe that the mother received support from "a Catholic right-wing organisation" when she got a High Court injunction in 2000 to stop the children from being placed in the care of relatives.



notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:15:25 PM EST
the mother received support from "a Catholic right-wing organisation" when she got a High Court injunction in 2000 to stop the children from being placed in the care of relatives.

Oh, yuk. They just don't seem to learn do they ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we can't have the state violating the "sanctity of the family" now can we?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Surely 'A catholic right wing organisation' can be named in open court, then becomes a matter of public record, so no tiptoing around them is required.

So who are they?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We'll have to wait for someone to name them under privilege in the Dail, I imagine.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah:

A childcare manager testified that he had been approached by a woman called Mína Bean Uí Chroibín who told him that the family needed support, not intrusive action.

Do you remember this woman?  I do.  Also known as Mina Cribben.  A screaming, fanatical Catholic nutcase who for decades has been trying to impose a demented Taliban society on us.  Remember SPUC, Family Solidarity and all the rest of them?  That was Mína, the mad old bat.(Bock the robber)

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vaguely remember seeing her 30 years ago holding up some placard or other. Sick.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That section of the story has now been removed by an updated story in the Irish times under the same link.  Presumably they are afraid of libel.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"a Catholic right-wing organisation"

I was under the impression the Church itself was a right-wing organization.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The church has always claimed that child abuse was due to a few bad apples - nothing intrinsic to their theology and practice - e.g. subjugation of women, obsession with sexuality, obsession with child control, celibacy, condemnation of homosexuality, sexual repression in general etc.

Be interesting to compare child abuse patterns with non-catholic/christian socities

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was always told that as child abuse wasn't mentioned in the bible as a bad thing (in Leviticus it's almost compulsory) therefore, from a catholic point of view, it wasn't a big deal. So protecting such a thing wouldn't be a stretch, esepcially in the light of other events around the world.

And catholicism has always had an illusion of itself as being above temporal law and their priests were exempted from the laws of the land where they worked (this was the cause of the fatal schism between Henry II & Thomas a Beckett).

It's interesting that the church still felt it could ignore the law of the land and get away with it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is abortion mentioned in the bible? I'm not sure.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Abortion comes under the Sixth Commandment (thou shalt not kill). Course we could note that the Bible seems pretty heavy on the murder, executions, genocide and general blooc-soaked mayhem, so I think that's a bit of a selective reading.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:26:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the English translation. In modern Hebrew it means "thou shall not murder"; in the original Hebrew, who knows? My guess is something like "thou shall not commit manslaughter" which leaves genocide out, and isn't too clear on abortion. There was a detailed discussion recently in The Forward.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Abortion comes under the Sixth Commandment

Yes, but I think the premise is Psalms 139:13.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:10:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At Roscommon Circuit Court today, Judge Miriam Reynolds said she would have given the 40-year-old woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, a life sentence had she been a man.

However, Judge Reynolds said she was restricted by the terms of 1908 legal act, which carries a maximum seven-year sentence for incest cases involving women.

What the hell kind of law is that?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One that overhauled fifteen years ago. By Queen Victoria, apparently.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I mean: What's the logic of different sentences for men and women?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:59:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The what, now? What is this "logic" you speak of?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Victorian logic, which remarkably was not reviewed when the act was amended a few years ago.  Apparently "equal" legislation is now in place - but is not retro-active to when these offences occurred

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, okay.  For some reason, I got the impression it was a more modern law that had been written this way.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is law; a subject entirely different from and usually unrelated to logic.

Just like homosexuality in the UK was only illegal for men; nobody dared tell Queen Victoria about lesbians and so there was no law against 'em.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also the bible is only concerned (even if only in a marginal way) with male homosexuality.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Im sure that thats an Urban Myth, but am too busy cooking to confirm.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am less certain.  Married heterosexual sex in those societies didn't particularly need to be consensual, and with polygamy, there may well have been little concern as to what the women did amongst themselves, provided virginity was no longer an issue.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
QI Talk Forum | View topic - Eroticism and Erotica
It is believed those presenting the amendment removed it (as the House of Lords did nearly 40 years later) fearing criminalizing lesbianism would alert women to its possibility.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:10:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am sure that decision was very wise and effective in that regard.  Just think of all of the women saved from being corrupted by something a bunch of men suggested to them.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sort of special on all sorts of levels.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 01:38:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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