Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Is this structured and argumented enough to be posted on dKos?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Jan 31st, 2009 at 02:42:18 PM EST
Yes, but is there a point? Everyone on that site is so sure that they are right no matter what their viewpoint is.

Reasoned argument is in short supply, unlike here.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sat Jan 31st, 2009 at 03:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the compliments to ET - but that's precisely why I was worried about the lack of comment here...

Anyway, I've posted the story over there (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/1/31/15123/1668/172/691406), at least to expose the audience over there to the notion of higher taxes, and also because you do get some good comments too.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Jan 31st, 2009 at 03:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, it spins off the diary list so quickly buried by the avalanche of 'my pet issue' diaries.  
by NvDem (EdGoodrich( at) gmail (well you know the rest)) on Sat Jan 31st, 2009 at 04:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I'm thinking is "why bonuses only?" Because they are the discretionary part of their pay? In that case, I think you should re-hash that particular point from the 2005 diary, because it is not obvious to somebody who isn't familiar with the subject (wasn't obvious to me, at least).

Basically, I think the question I still don't know the answer to is "sure, we can tax bonuses, but what will prevent them from just juggling around their income to ordinary salaries?"

If you take 90 % of the bonus and only 60 % of the salary, then naturally, you'd see a move from bonus to salary, just as we've seen a move from salary to bonus when the (effective) rate on bonuses was lowered to well below the rate on salaries. Is that in and of itself A Good Thing? It might be, if the salary is a monthly sum and the bonus scheme is some crazy short-term stock-option gimmickry, but it's not intuitively obvious that it is in general.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jan 31st, 2009 at 03:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree on the "why bonuses only?" point. Just add a bunch of higher tax rate brackets to the existing ones. In the UK, for instance, the 40% maximum tax rate kicks in around GPB40k gross annual income. There is lots of room at the top for brackets with higher tax rates.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 03:39:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know... maybe it's because I don't think like a banker :-) but I don't see why going through all this complication.

In a regular (not a bank) company, things would go like this: if the company lost truckloads of money, due to bad investments that went south and that it comes to a point where the government comes and bail it out with taxpayers money, then it's very likely that the next memo to all hands will be something like this: because the company needs to conserve cash, next to no visibility on the business in the coming months, etc, etc... well, bonuses will be forgotten this year; be thankful we're not implementing a mass layoff. If there's some ethics left in the management (it happens), they will even announce a 20% pay cut for all the top management.

That's it. Done. Don't like it? Insist on your bonus no matter what? OK, see that door with "Exit" written on it? Go ahead and hit it...

I mean, what so effing complicated? The state saved the banks with taxpayers money; they have the right to control how the darn money is used.

Rather than taxing the loot afterwards, why not preventing the looting from going on in the first place? That's how many people would reason, I guess...

There is also a problem with taxing the bonuses: although we all agree that proportional taxation should be restored, this is one really, really steep uphill battle.

For years, the people have been brainwashed that taxes are baaad, they are an impediment to innovation, growth, job creation and a threat to civilization as we know it...

Anyway, those are my thoughts...

by Bernard (bernard) on Sun Feb 1st, 2009 at 12:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think so because it can be seen as self-promotion jumping straight to a very generous sense of fairness, without saying why more loads of specific/narrow tax regulation are necessary, or even a practical idea.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Feb 1st, 2009 at 02:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Occasional Series