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Crazy Horse:
what's positive about being for nuclear disarmament?  What are the alternatives, agnostic? Pro armament?


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is supposed to count as being against Ashton because she's British?

Doesn't do it for me (though I don't necessarily agree with CH's scepticism).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:43:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes people are against Ashton for being British.

You could start by reading Jerome's own FP post

Looks like Blair's persistent lobbying did open the route for the UK to grab the most important of the two new jobs. The only silver lining is that the Commissioner in charge of banking reform in the next Commission will not be British...
and the top-level comments to it

Crazy Horse:

And echoing Fran, it will take much to convince me that the UK, outside of Schengen and the Euro, should have been given such a supposedly key position.
Jerome a Paris:
Why a Brit?
Cyrille:
How can the UK get ANYTHING?
Crazy Horse:
I feel robbed, or raped.
When I said
This is pretty unbecoming...
the answer was
This is disingenuous
But, truly, it is as unbecoming as
She looks only half female to me...
But this is just my personal opinion and oversensitivity, I guess. Or maybe not.

RogueTrooper:

Whilst this one ebbs and flows it has been a constant during the time I have been coming to ET. It's the reason I turned into a lurker.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:51:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And let me add, this was clearly the gut reaction. Then it has been rationalised in all ways. Because she's a life peer, because she has no experience, because she's from the Labour Party, because she's a token woman... But the first reaction of those who criticise Ashton was why a Brit? After some arguing they can be convinced to withhold judgement because nobody knew her before yesterday. As with van Rompuy, I guess.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:55:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
this was clearly the gut reaction. Then it has been rationalised in all ways

That is entirely your interpretation.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:05:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We'll leave it at that.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:13:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Disingenuous and skewed to add the last points.

As for the others, they are based on Ashton as an official representative of the United Kingdom in the EU. Not on her Britishness as a person.

And no, this is not about frames and narratives. You are plainly exaggerating the focus of these remarks. Given Colman's top comment, I'd say he is too.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:01:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess both Colman and I are in the minority here. But I'll add I didn't like this one bit.

Migeru:

Whenever I have spoken for the Stop Blair! campaign I was careful to stress that it was not an anti-British campaign but an anti-Blair campaign. Maybe I was wrong.
Jerome a Paris:
You were not wrong (none / 0) It was an anti-Blair campaign, and not an anti-Brit campaign.

But what do you think of the large scale campaign mounted by Britain to get one of the two jobs, and do you think that it's amongst the first countries we should look to for a candidate for these EU-wide jobs? Why did the "no one from the big countries" somehow did not apply to the UK?

And can you not admit that for some people, it was also legitimately about him being a anti-EU Brit, even if we agreed to downplay this?

Actually, I didn't like to see the amount of generic anti-British (not anti-Blair) animosity among the Stop Blair! signatories' comments. We basically got 20 thousand Eurosceptic little Englanders who hated Blair more than the EU, and 20 thousand anti-Brit people. It was not fun to read. As I put it,
It's not that he was an anti-EU Brit. It's that being a Brit he proved he was anti-EU by failing to make the case for the EU to his fellow citizens when he enjoyed an immense amount of political capital.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:09:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That may be, but I think it's going too far to impugn members of ET as xenophobic anti-Brits.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:19:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Impeach me.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:21:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:27:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"As for the others, they are based on Ashton as an official representative of the United Kingdom in the EU. Not on her Britishness as a person."

Absolutely! I am a Frenchman who moved to the UK when it would be clear that I would not be getting any better career prospects from the move (quite the contrary in fact) and am about to go to the pub to meet a bunch of friends who, when I met them, had the reaction that I seemed British to them. I'll spend Christmas in Cheddar. I was, before moving to London, and ICC qualified cricket umpire. I have read more words in English than French since I turned 14. There is nothing in me against Brits per se -and I'm sure it's the same with the other people being quoted.

Maybe some signatures in the Stop Blair campaign came from people who genuinely hate the Brits (I'd guess it's actually directed more against the English btw), but we are not responsible for them.

Symbols and context do matter in politics. The campaign by the UK to have at all cost one of the two positions was ungainly. And as for the symbol, I may quote myself:

"For those who claim that this is being anti-Brit on sight, how do you think the UK would have reacted to seeing the command of operations in Irak given to a French general? Even a competent one mind you. Then, add to that that France would have demanded it be given the position."

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:24:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cyrille:
Symbols and context do matter in politics. The campaign by the UK to have at all cost one of the two positions was ungainly.
As was the reaction to Ashton's appointment unbecoming of ET.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You haven't answered my questions to you upthread:


But what do you think of the large scale campaign mounted by Britain to get one of the two jobs, and do you think that it's amongst the first countries we should look to for a candidate for these EU-wide jobs? Why did the "no one from the big countries" somehow did not apply to the UK?



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess we're all afraid of the Eurosceptics and their likely 2010-2014 tenure in the UK government.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:54:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why is the EU scared of the British eurosceptics, again? If they won't get in, they should get out. That shouldn't be the EU's problem.

And no, that's not about Britain. I take precisely the same line when I hear Danish eurosceptics piss and moan about the €, or hear the Danish government demand an a la carte opt out from judicial cooperation (which as it happens they only do because they want to be in Frontex but don't want to accept any of the refugees that Frontex picks up in the Mediterranean).

Although I'll grant that Britain has better reasons to not be in the € than Denmark, on account of not already being pegged to the D-mark.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And your quotes from these comments are cherry-picked and out of context.

Jerome asked the question Why a Brit? to answer it with the information that there was probably a trade-off for France involved:

Jerome a Paris:

It looks like the trade off is that Michel Barnier will be getting the Commissioner for the Internal Market and Financial Regulation

Crazy Horse continued his comment I feel robbed, or raped, with:

Crazy Horse:

What ever has Britain done to enhance operation of the European Union?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's okay, Jérôme himself said clearly it is legitimate to be anti-Brit even if you agree to downplay it. I'm clearly out of line here.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:20:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do I detect the smell of burning martyr?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:30:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I cannot reply to that without being rude.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Jérôme himself said clearly it is legitimate to be anti-Brit

I explained (in more than a little bit of detail) why it was legitimate to fight against a stronger representation of UK appointees in the top European posts, and you call that being "anti-Brit"?

And I hope you won't respond by quoting again my "anti-Brit" title because that's not an argument and you know it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:50:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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