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by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What's this now, mysogyny?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:22:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Misogyny? Are you kidding? I love women. Especially the beautiful half dressed type.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:26:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Warnings from Colman, Dodo & Migeru? I see there's no tolerance for a little humour. Lighten up guys... You're taking yourselves too seriously.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:11:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Strop assuming that what you find funny is funny and not revolting for others.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Revolting? Now that's funny.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:28:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How about offensive and disrespectful to the women who also contribute to ET?
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:40:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh? I offended the women who post on ET? How so?
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 02:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I get a "warning" grade for THIS comment from DoDo. This is a Communist Comedy!
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 04:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's like saying that I've been disrespectful to all Brits because I said that "Tony Blair is an ugly jerk". Bollocks.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 04:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why would I want to contribute to a blog where it is acceptable for anyone to make such a degrading remark about a woman and for it to go unchallenged?  

The fact that a number of people have said to you in various ways that such a remark is out of line here does not mean that we are all PC, OTT and having hissy fits over nothing.  

Why do you even see the need to comment on her looks at all? If we tolerate that kind of comment, then it appears everywhere - which is exactly what happens to women politicians in the media.  As soon as they show their faces, their policies don't matter, just their looks, boobs, shoes, dresses.  I'm sick to death of that, it is a reflection of how our society views and devalues women.

If you can't accept that we don't wish to perpetuate that devaluation of women on ET then go somewhere that doesn't give a shit.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 05:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do you even see the need to comment on her looks at all?

Because I'm a human being and a male. Human beings attribute a lot of importance to looks - whether they be the looks of their partners, their colleagues, their friends or indeed their politicians. In fact, I've read entire business reports on the subject which conclude that those with better looks have a much better chance of succeeding in whatever they do than those who look like crap. In politics especially, our society is presented a packaged image of individuals to vote for. Content comes second place - if it comes at all. It's all about the image. If you can't handle a comment like mine about the physical traits of Lady Ashton then I guess you must experience a lot of frustration in our post-modern society.

Does not mean that we're all PC or OTT...

That's an interesting one, really. I live a relatively privileged life and mingle with many cultivated people. Discussions where sexist humour has been interjected (not necessarily by me) have taken place on occasions - and not once has the crowd reacted with such collective badgering and bullying. Not once. So I can only conclude one of the following:

  1. Those who call themselves "ET-ers" adhere to group-think values
  2. ET has rebuffed all those who do not think and act like "ET-ers" creating, in the process, a group which shares very common (if not identical) values

That's all fine & well, but inbreeding has never contributed to innovation.

If you can't accept that we don't wish to perpetuate that devaluation of women on ET then go somewhere that doesn't give a shit.

That proves my point.

by vladimir on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 at 03:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Being "cultured" is not the same thing as having good taste and not being misogynistic. Just look at baroque era architecture and Victorian high society, respectively.

And some things that fly (or at least are allowed to slide) in face to face conversation translate poorly to the online format.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 at 04:38:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
vladimir:
I live a relatively privileged life and mingle with many cultivated people.

Colour me astounded.

If we find ourselves unable to live up to your exclusive and cultured standards of diversity and tolerance, is it too much to hope that you'll be spending more time with those who do?

It's certainly too much to hope that you might understand that one of hallmarks of privilege is taking secret - and sometimes not so secret - pride in transgressive and inappropriate behaviour.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 at 04:48:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I live a relatively privileged life and mingle with many cultivated people.
See how we envy you.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 at 05:14:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Your comment just blew me away.
by vladimir on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 at 05:36:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
[ET Moderation Technology™]

ET is not whatever group of people you consider cultivated may be, it's a public online forum. It is moderated by user ratings and by an editorial team. To post here, you accept that. If you don't accept it, then don't post here. It's not something we are going to spend days arguing about.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 at 09:33:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I did notice the second degree. Even though in that particular case I did not find it funny I wouldn't want to be too PC and admit that someone else might have found it humorous.

In that case, I suggest you make it abundantly clear, with something like '(('macho vladimir'))' (without the ' of course), which would have appeared as [vladimir's Macho Moment of the Day™ Technology]

I guess this would have helped somewhat.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:01:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
[ET Moderation Technology™]

Lightening up the place with humour is fine, and I'm a great fan of that. What is not fine is humour grounded in disparaging how a woman is "supposed" to "look" to be considered female.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:38:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
nope, that's machism. subtle difference.

Pierre
by Pierre on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:35:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Women on the site will be forgiven for perhaps not wishing to notice the difference.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Its neither machism nor is it mysoginy. "Machism" isn't an English word. It's a French word which is used to describe a male who projects his virility and tends to believe that women are his inferiors.

There was nothing "machist" is the photo I posted nor in the accompanying comment - which was simply to say that, in my opinion, Ashton lacks feminine traits. Indeed, the woman is, in my opinion, ugly. Saying this is what - politically incorrect? Machist? Misogynous? WTF?

Why should my photo and comment be interpreted as being more "machist" than the entire discussion above around Ashton's "token" appointment because she's female? If you read Ashton's speech accepting her nomination and responding to her detractors, you will notice that she does not say ANYWHERE that she was chosen because she is a woman. Any "warnings" distributed those comments? Noooo.

I have nothing to say on the "misogynous" accusation since it is so obviously devoid of any sense.

Thank you to ThatBritGuy for understanding and appreciating a bit of humour. What a relief.

by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:09:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
vladimir:
Indeed, the woman is, in my opinion, ugly.
On which grounds she presumably shouldn't have gotten the job, or what?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:14:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe we should have had a beauty contest instead.

For the men as well.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:17:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well...
The EU is good at functional politics, but very bad at narrative politics, with theatre and pageantry. Theatre and pageantry are stupid and annoying, but very necessary.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:27:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who cares if the men we appoint are feminine?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:27:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who said anything about being feminine?

Swimsuits should, however, be obligatory.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:29:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well that depends on who's under the swimsuit. Oops, here goes another zero... I mean warning.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:32:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that is a good idea. Because it is obviously ok for the media to tear female politicians apart because of their clothes, hair and looks but it doesn't get done to male politicians.

Though in the interests of gender equality I have on a at least two occasions voiced my objection to Geert Wilders purely on the basis of his horrible hair.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, a female with Geert Wilders' hair would have been ridiculed too.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:02:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing to do with the job at hand Migeru. I'm sure she'll do a fine job - ugly or beautiful.

One more time... the discussion was about the role that her sex had in getting her appointed. My comment was that she didn't look all that female. It was funny for some... grotesque to others. C'est la vie. That's all there was to it. No misogyny. No machism. Just a bit of (unfunny) humour. At least it made two people laugh!! And 6 distribute yellow cards??????

by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:24:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"You have no sense of humor" is the defense of a bully.  Get over it.

I don't much care what word is used to describe it, and I also don't care who you find attractive or not.  Her appearance has no relevance to her ability to do the job, or to why she was selected for it.  Aside from being fundamentally sexist, "jokes" about how powerful or influential women "aren't feminine" are as tired and unimaginative as they get.  Yawn.  Great sense of humor you've got there, pal.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:23:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh... and have you heard any European leader say that she was elected because she's female? So why are you discussing it?

It was a joke.

by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:26:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
have you heard any European leader say that she was elected because she's female?

Zapatero.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In this very thread, too.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:28:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Misogynous
then machist
and now..... bully!
This is getting better and better.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:27:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you ticked so many people the wrong way, maybe you shouldn't look for a problem in them...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not that I ticked so many people off. It's that so many people on this thread follow the typical behaviour patterns of the common herd.

When there's an individual who defends a position which isn't "The Party Line" the "mob" (no hard feelings) gangs up for a lynching. It's been done to many a contributor. Just look at The Brit Guy... he's been what, posting on ET for years now and he mistakenly gave a 4-Excellent grade to the Ashton photo when he meant to give a 0... yeah right. When he realised that he was on the "mob's" wrong side, he turned his coat.

Whatever. Your community, your friends, your rules - which, by the way are applied unfairly. But there have been many fantastic essays and books written on the subject. I recommend "Le terrorisme intellectual" from jean Sevillia (dunno if it's been translated to English). Read it. Have fun... oh and have a nice WE.

by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 01:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh Lord, I am really detecting the smell of burning martyr.

Call it groupthink, herd mentality, or whatever makes you feel better, but you should realize that the kind of humour you attempted there does not go down well on ET.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 01:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, you speak for ET. You ARE ET.

"Le ET c'est moi!"

by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 02:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd suggest you download our TribExt extension, install it, and see what happens if you give someone a 0 and then click on Cancel.

I suppose I should be flattered that you thought I was the only one who appreciated your fine sense of comedy, before crumbling under the Stalinist demands of peer pressure.

But sadly - no.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 01:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How funny!
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 01:59:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So this sort of thing happens often to you then? I mean, voting 4 when you in fact wanted to vote 0...
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 04:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drop it, you're trolling.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 04:27:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn - that was meant to be a clear zero, not a four.

Fixed.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:15:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are no zeros.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:29:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're taunting for a zero rating. twice. That's called trolling. Stop it.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you have any comment to make about Van Rompuy's looks?

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:24:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah. He's kind of cute.
by vladimir on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 01:21:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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