Europe is Doomed! Special 'Nobodies' Edition | 211 comments (211 topical, editorial, 1 hidden)

Because she has never been elected to anything

Given that diplomacy is not necessarily best conducted by elected officials, I fail to see why this is a huge problem.

was never a particularly senior or influential politician in the UK

Uh... in my view, that's a mark in her favor, when one thinks about recent senior and/or influential politicians in the UK.

The brief was for a nominally leftist women to balance male right wingers in all the other EU leadership positions.

Ah. So any woman named to this position would be a "token"?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:17:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 2)

the stormy present:

Ah. So any woman named to this position would be a "token"?

No.
Neelie Kroes (if you want a commissioner with a track record)
Mary Robinson (if she could be persuaded)
DALIA GRYBAUSKAITE (if you want someone with both a Commission and an electoral track record)
Tarja Kaarina Halonen

All have more substantial track records. The only problem was they're not British.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:27:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 1)

Kroes wasn't foreign policy, either -- and, Oui's praises notwithstanding, I heard positives about her only in the same timeframe Ashton was Commissioner. AFAIK Tarja Halonen wasn't available, either. Dalia Grybauskaitė wasn't from the Northwest.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:37:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 2)

Mary Robinson has said she does not want the job. Tarja Halonen and Dalia Grybauskaite both have jobs. Why on Earth would they want to give up being presidents of their respective countries to take this position? Crikey, I wouldn't.

Neelie Kroes I had to look up. It seems to me that has no real experience in diplomacy or foreign relations, other than her current position as Commissioner for Competition, in which her mandate is largely limited to business and commerce -- hardly the profile I'd want for this position, but I'm not European, so what do I know. As a side note, the Wiki entry says she's "a confidant of Ayaan Hirsi Ali," and persuaded her to join the VVD, which IMHO should be a huge mark against her.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 3)

Why on Earth would they want to give up being presidents of their respective countries to take this position?

(Just nitpicking: van Rompuy and Barroso did gave up their PM jobs. Though, for fairness, Barroso did so to flee a sinking ship...)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:48:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 3)

They gave up positions as heads of state to become presidents of the European Commission and the European Council. Do you think either would have done so to become foreign ministers?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:55:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 3)

They may or may not have been persuadable. I don't know if any were asked. My only point here is that to argue that Baroness Ashton was appointed in large part because she was British and a women is not necessarily a sexist "token" women argument. If someone wants to make the argument that she is the best possible High Rep for the EU at the moment regardless of nationality or gender, then I am happy to listen to that argument - but I have seen no one even try to make that case.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:53:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

You're the one who used the term "token," not me.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 07:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 4)

Wait, sorry, it was Jerome who used it, apologies.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:01:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 4)

No problem - I don't think Jerome should have used the word "token" as it is generally a red flag word for sexism. However Jerome has acknowledged her competence - much more than me - and my concerns are centred around a lack of experience/achievement at the highest level and a lack of a history of successful political engagement with any electorate. Neither necessarily mean she won't end up doing a good job. However the reasons for he appointment won't necessarily increase popular identification with EU institutions either, and that was one of the issues Lisbon was supposed to address.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 08:45:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 3)

Neither Kroes nor Robinson nor Grybauskaité nor Halonen were on the list proposed yesterday in the "betting pool" open thread.

Jerome a Paris:

I think you need to add (none / 1) the list for the High Representative as well. The two will be selected as a pair.
Names mentioned
CATHERINE ASHTON, 53, a member of Britain's Labour Party, she has been the EU's trade commissioner since 2008;
MASSIMO D'ALEMA, 60, is a former Socialist Italian prime minister and foreign minister;
BERNARD KOUCHNER, 70, France's foreign minister and the founder of the international aid agency Doctors Without Borders (Medecins Sans Frontieres)
DAVID MILIBAND, 44, the Labour Party member is currently Britain's foreign minister;
MIGUEL ANGEL MORATINOS, 58, is Spain's Socialist foreign minister with seven years prior experience as the EU's special representative for the Mideast peace process;
URSULA PLASSNIK, 53, a Christian Democratic former Austrian foreign minister and ambassador to Switzerland;
OLLI REHN, 47, a Finn, has been EU commissioner for enlargement for five years;
ADRIAN SEVERIN, 55, member of the European Parliament, the Social Democrat is a former Romanian foreign minister.
I'd also add Elisabeth Guigou

Of the women, Plassnik was of the wrong party, as there was a political agreement to appoint an EPP member as President and a PES member as High Representative. Jérôme added Guigou to the list as a personal wish.

As it turns out, looking at the field I ended up predicting Ashton's appointment. And Jérôme predicted Juncker-Plassnik, presumably with a dose of gender balance influencing the choice?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:01:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I mentioned them (none / 1)

But then perhaps I am a no one!
Frank Schnittger:

It's useful to have the additional info given with this list:
BACKGROUND: Who's who of possible candidates for EU posts - Monsters and Critics
JAN PETER BALKENENDE, 53, Christian Democratic prime minister of the Netherlands since 2002;
TONY BLAIR, 56, former Labour Party prime minister of Britain;
FELIPE GONZALEZ, 67, a Socialist former prime minister of Spain;
DALIA GRYBAUSKAITE, 53, the party-unaffiliated president of Lithuania and a former EU budget commissioner;
TARJA HALONEN, 65, the Social Democratic president of Finland since 2000;
JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, 54, Luxembourg's Christian Democratic prime minister and head of the Eurogroup of European finance ministers;
PAAVO LIPPONEN, 68, the Social Democrat is a former Finnish prime minister and current president of that country's parliament;
MARY ROBINSON, 65, former Labour Party president of Ireland;
WOLFGANG SCHUESSEL, 64, a former lawyer and Conservative Party chancellor of Austria from 2000 through 2007;
HERMAN VAN ROMPUY, 62, current Christian Democratic prime minister of Belgium;
GUY VERHOFSTADT, 56, a former Belgian prime minister who currently heads the Liberal bloc in the European Parliament;
VAIRA VIKE-FREIBERGA, 71, an unaffiliated former president of Latvia.
Candidates for High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (in alphabetical order):
CATHERINE ASHTON, 53, a member of Britain's Labour Party, she has been the EU's trade commissioner since 2008;
MASSIMO D'ALEMA, 60, is a former Socialist Italian prime minister and foreign minister;
BERNARD KOUCHNER, 70, France's foreign minister and the founder of the international aid agency Doctors Without Borders (Medecins Sans Frontieres)
DAVID MILIBAND, 44, the Labour Party member is currently Britain's foreign minister;
MIGUEL ANGEL MORATINOS, 58, is Spain's Socialist foreign minister with seven years prior experience as the EU's special representative for the Mideast peace process;
URSULA PLASSNIK, 53, a Christian Democratic former Austrian foreign minister and ambassador to Switzerland;
OLLI REHN, 47, a Finn, has been EU commissioner for enlargement for five years;
ADRIAN SEVERIN, 55, member of the European Parliament, the Social Democrat is a former Romanian foreign minister.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:09:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I mentioned them (none / 0)

I understood only the ones in yellow were candidates for High Representative and the others were candidates for President.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:15:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 2)

Guigou would have been a good choice.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:43:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (4.00 / 2)

She had no patrons, with the PS being in opposition and all...

Ashton had Brown to propose her and Zapatero to second it, both Socialist and Brown her compatriot.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 20th, 2009 at 09:55:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Europe is Doomed! Special 'Nobodies' Edition | 211 comments (211 topical, 0 editorial, 1 hidden)

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