Saving the world, one windfarm at a time | 41 comments (41 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Saving the world, one windfarm at a time (none / 0)

By the way, we have an interesting wind debate going in Sweden right now. Both the Royal Academy of Sciences and the Royal Academy of Engineering have recently started arguing that the Nordic (or at least Swedish) grid regulation potential (from hydro) is almost depleted, allowing only an increase in wind power generation from 2 TWh to 10 (annual consumption is 150 TWh) while the wind enthusiast in charge of our version of the EIA is arguing that we can reach 30 TWh. This latter number is based on flawed and extremely simplified computer models and he's generally seen as being wrong.

An interesting affair to say the least. If wind is to reach 10 % in Sweden, billions will have to spent on strengthening the grid and possibly on exploiting the protected rivers or building gas turbines.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:23:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Saving the world, one windfarm at a time (4.00 / 3)

What is it that allows Spain to accommodate much more wind than Sweden?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:28:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Saving the world, one windfarm at a time (none / 0)

Plenty of fossil fuel powered turbines available for balancing?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:32:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Saving the world, one windfarm at a time (none / 0)

I thought Sweden had plenty of hydro for balancing, too.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Saving the world, one windfarm at a time (none / 1)

Furthermore, the balancing capacity in Sweden is in the north (where the rivers are) while the demand is in the south (where people live). North-south transmission capacity is limited, so you can get issues both with wind located both in the north (lines are full of power and dams are full of water, no room left for wind) and in the south (lines are already full of power and suddenly the wind dies down in the south...).

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Annual production in TWh (4.00 / 4)

Note the protected rivers in the far north. Roughly 10-15 % of the Swedish population live north of Dalälven. There's a reason the nukes are all in the south...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:44:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Annual production in TWh (none / 1)

Speaking of nukes, Oskarshamn 3 was recently restarted after its uprate and is now officially the world most powerful BWR, weighing in at 1450 MW. When it entered operation for the first time in 1985, it generated 1050 MW. :)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 10:52:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Saving the world, one windfarm at a time (4.00 / 3)

Starvid:

An interesting affair to say the least. If wind is to reach 10 % in Sweden, billions will have to spent on strengthening the grid and possibly on exploiting the protected rivers or building gas turbines.

That is not the estimate of people at the grid division at Vattenfall. The other year at a seminar a representative claimed that the cost for strengthening the grid enough to deal with an all-wind scenario was about two öre/kWh. The rep also explained that dealing with wind variations is not harder then dealing with nuclear plants having emergency shut-downs and off periods.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Dec 21st, 2009 at 02:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saving the world, one windfarm at a time | 41 comments (41 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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