SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and Solidarity Action Plan | 61 comments (61 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and S (none / 0)

Energy is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed. That's the First Law of Thermodynamics. So in a sense, no, energy is nor produced.

However, usable energy (also known as Free Energy in Thermodynamics) is destroyed or (hopefully) consumed, and is not conserved but degraded. That's the Second Law of Thermodynamics. And in this sense yes, energy in usable form (often using a low-entropy form of matter as carrier) is produced.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 05:15:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and S (none / 0)

Thanks. In terms of economics, then, is it not reasonable to say that what is bought and sold are different commodities from which (usable, or free) energy may be produced (ie do thermodynamic work) by the use of different transformative appliances (wood stove, gas cooker, electric heater, machine tool, light bulb, internal combustion engine, micro computer, oil furnace, etc)?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 08:25:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and S (none / 0)

In addition, whether Energy is produced or not, it is transferred between more or less neatly contained and defined systems and it is this transfer that has (a) value.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 08:58:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and S (none / 0)

To go back to AT's original question, I would say an extensive thermodynamical variable is a good, and an intensive variable is a service.

Examples of goods: (Thermodynamic Free) Energy, (neg)-Entropy, Space/Size, (amount of) Matter, electrical charge/current, magnetic moment (i.e., strength of a magnet).

Examples of services: Temperature, Pressure, surface/linear Tension, electrical Voltage, magnetic Field.

Hah.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 09:49:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and (none / 0)

No, still not produced. Exploited. 'Production' would still violate the Second Law.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 10:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and (none / 0)

If you ignore the low-grade "waste energy" that is "produced" when you "produce" some amount of high-grade "usable energy".

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 at 11:13:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

SER-2 [03] Communication on the Security and Solidarity Action Plan | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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