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Bloomberg.com: UBS Sued by U.S. to Disclose Names of Up to 52,000 Holding Secret Accounts
The U.S. government sued UBS AG, Switzerland's largest bank, to try to force disclosure of the identities of as many as 52,000 U.S. customers with secret Swiss accounts.

The lawsuit, filed today in federal court in Miami, alleges that 32,000 accounts contained cash and 20,000 held securities, according to the statement. U.S. customers failed to report and pay U.S. income taxes on income earned in those accounts, which held about $14.8 billion in assets in the mid-2000s, according to a statement from the Justice Department.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 02:41:56 PM EST
I've been thinking about these flag-of-convenience countries and how to repatriate the money that's been stashed away there.

Seems to me that we might not even need gunboats for it.

After all, what's been stashed away there isn't gold, or factories, or steel - it most probably isn't even the physical tokens we use to represent money. Sure, somewhere there's a lot of suitcases with $ and € bills in them, but the bulk of the money is in bank accounts, not in suitcases.

Presumably, the flag-of-convenience country banks have lent that money on the global interbank market, rather than kept it as cash reserves (following the same logic that says that the "man with suitcase" delivery method is unlikely).

If that's true, we should see debts from the banks of the countries that the money has been lent to to the banks of the flag-of-convenience countries. Presumably, this is in no small part the countries from which the money has been stolen (because typically, the procedure would be that an individual asks his bank to "move" money to - say - Switzerland, which means that the bank changes its books to say that it now owes the Swiss bank the money, and does not owe the guy anything, and the Swiss bank changes its books to say that it owes the guy money, and the guy's home bank owes it money).

So we could institute a law saying that if a country has been found by a court of law to not cooperate satisfactorily with the tax authorities, according to certain specified criteria (including relaxing bank secrecy in connection with tax fraud investigations), all sovereign debt to said country would be declared void immediately, and all interbank debt to the country would become debt to the government instead.

Then the Swiss banks become insolvent, because they now owe the tax cheats more money than they are in turn owed by the tax cheats' former banks (i.e. more than zero). Even a one or two large economies enforcing such laws - say Germany and Scandinavia+Finland or Germany and France - might cause bank runs in flag-of-convenience countries.

And all of this is accomplished without ever violating any other territory's sovereignty. We only take legal action against banks operating in our own jurisdiction. The fact that there is some - ahem - fallout for certain disreputable countries is both completely intended and in fact the point... and also completely Somebody Else's Problem.

So why can't this work?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 03:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama's move is going to be more direct, I think.

Who knows - there might turn out to be one or two famous names on that list.

This is looking like it might lead to the Capone Solution for a number of famous and/or influential people. Which will be fun - because unlike constitutional politics, you can't argue about tax law.

As long as there's some evidence of follow-through, I'm liking this a lot.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 03:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd be cool with whatever works to get some oligarchs run out of town on a rail, covered in tar and feathers. Preferably in a reasonably legal manner, so as to preclude future el Presidentes reinstating them over technicalities.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 03:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama to Switzerland: "If our banking system's going down, we're taking you with us."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 03:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:

And all of this is accomplished without ever violating any other territory's sovereignty. We only take legal action against banks operating in our own jurisdiction. The fact that there is some - ahem - fallout for certain disreputable countries is both completely intended and in fact the point... and also completely Somebody Else's Problem.

So why can't this work?

it could.... but for one thing. much banking is international and covert.

patriotic loyalty is subservient to expediency.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 05:03:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The physical infrastructure that makes banking possible is still in the hands of sovereign states. I don't expect Danish banks to help the Danish state repatriate funds from Switzerland out of patriotism. I expect them to do it if there's Danish police sitting in their server rooms with wire cutters, electromagnets and a court order.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 at 10:23:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
I expect them to do it if there's Danish police sitting in their server rooms with wire cutters, electromagnets and a court order.

LOL

there have doubtless been countless golf games, convention schmoozes and palms stroked to counter that possibility, still i'm with you, it should only be a question of time, it is where the beef is, at the end of the day.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 at 02:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When we legalise cannabis for private use, there'll be plenty of free prison cells for the palm-greasers...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 at 03:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So the right wing media campaigns aboutkeeping the dangerous druggies inside in fear that there might be suddenly space for the finacial page corespondent?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 at 03:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An interesting hypothesis. Although I think the prison-industrial complex and keeping The People scared (either of all the dangerous loons that have to be locked up, or of being locked up, depending on how perceptive the person in question is) is more compelling as reasons go...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 06:37:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This whole hunt for a Commerce Secretary is getting a bit extreme, don't you think?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 03:49:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Empörung und Ratlosigkeit in der Schweiz (Outrage and helplessness in Switzerland)

So sprach die SVP von einer «unhaltbaren Aufweichung des Bankgeheimnisses». Es gehe nicht an, dass es jetzt auf internationalen Druck hin aufgeweicht werde, sagte SVP-Sprecher Alain Hauert.

Auch die FDP kritisiert den Druck, den die USA im Steuerstreit mit der UBS aufgesetzt haben, als schlicht inakzeptabel. «Das ist Macht vor Recht», sagte FDP-Sprecher Damien Cottier. FDP und Liberale stünden zum Bankgeheimnis.

Die CVP zeigte sich schockiert. Sie übt vor allem an der Eile Kritik, mit der die Schweizer Finanzmarktaufsicht (Finma) und Finanzminister Hans-Rudolf Merz sich dem Druck der USA gebeugt hätten, wie CVP-Präsident Christophe Darbellay sagte.

Selbst die Sozialdemokraten, bei denen das Bankgeheimnis bisher auf keine grosse Gegenliebe stiess, reagierten zornig.  «Mit Wut», sagte SP-Präsident Christian Levrat, habe er die jüngste Entwicklung im Steuerstreit zwischen den USA und der UBS zur Kenntnis genommen. Für den SP-Präsidenten grenzt die Haltung der USA an Erpressung.

(The four parties of the permanent Swiss coalition government)

I have to go out, so I don't have time to translate these.

by MarekNYC on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 03:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Methinks "perplexion" would be a better translation here than "helplessness". (Unless I err about the meaning of the latter in English.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 at 04:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You made me worried there for a second, my German being rather far from perfect and quite a bit worse than yours, but in this case...

Collins German-English/English-German Dictionary, Unabridged, 2nd ed. 1991:

Ratlosigkeit: f helplessness, in meiner ~ not knowing what to do..., being at a loss... (thus the secondary definition is basically yours but stronger)

by MarekNYC on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 at 12:30:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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