Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Energy-based Units will only be a small part of value in circulation, but an important one because of their pretty much universal acceptability.

Well, I thought you mean this would be the only thing, so I simply didn't know what you mean.

Actually I don't think it will be universally accepted, because it is not so easy to redeem. For practical reasons, a gold standard would be easier with respect to that.

This is particularly the case for Units redeemable in (say) natural gas, which is IMHO capable of becoming both a pretty important global means of exchange and vehicle for investment during a period of transition to renewable energy.

This might make sense in a country, that has natural gas in its ground. But for a country, that imports most of its gas, that doesn't seem to be a very good idea, to have a currency redeemable in something that it has to buy, and that can't be easily stored.

As for the money you use to buy rolls, the pieces of paper you are accustomed to presenting in payment have no intrinsic value. It's a bit different if you present a redeemable Unit issued by the baker, though, isn't it?

Sure they have the same intrinsic value as a redeemable unit. The redeemability is dependent on the law enforcement by the gov't. My paper money is backed by gov't's debt, which is backed by the capability to produce stuff by the people living in my country. And even if somebody miraculously finds a way for cold fusion, this will still be something worth.

I'm not talking about one wind turbine in isolation: that was merely an example of the fact that wind turbines are essentially "self funding". I am talking about the entire networked energy clearing system, incorporating cross border grids and other infrastructure.

Well, but of course already now, there is the possibility to get credit for collaterised ownership in wind turbines. Where is the fundamental difference, if it is NOT to share risks between more people (Assuming that risk is zero, because there are so many wind mills collaterized, that accidents don't play a role)?

As far as money and dream worlds go, I would say that it is perhaps you who inhabits what is increasingly becoming a nightmare world. Our system of Money as Debt is falling down around us: if you think there is a debt-based solution on the way, please point me to it.
I have already given an answer. Just making non-debt based money to the rescue. Just printing net money, backed by nothing at all. Furthermore you describe an alternative world. It is not clear how to come from the current state, with lots of existing credit, to the alternative world, where credit plays a minor role. Somehow that has to be resolved. To create general inflation is not a nice way to do that, but a doable way.

The investor has the choice of selling the Unit at the market price for energy, or redeeming it against energy consumed. Japanese investors don't have much use for electricity in Scotland, and therefore have a sterling/yen currency risk. But what's new about that? They'd have a similar risk on anything they buy as an investment in Scotland.
So there ARE still sterlings. And what is now a sterling? Is this the old paper money running parallel, or is it something connected to this new form of financial asset? What is the market price of energy? I thought the currency than is pegged against energy.
And still, how do you pay taxes on your units, if this something different than sterlings, if you redeem the energy? This is not a trivial question. That is essentially what defines legal tender. Most local money projects et al. are simply tax fraud.

Unfortunately I still don't get the big picture, and what the role of your new financial idea in it is.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 at 09:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Others have rated this comment as follows:


Top Diaries

Occasional Series