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BruceMcF:
Institutions are intrinisically part of those things we take for granted as we make the routine decisions of our day to day life.

I see no future for institutions or organisations in the emerging post-Internet "Peer to Peer" economy. I see the future in networked self organisation within consensually negotiated legal framework agreements.

BruceMcF:

As far as why banks are not aggressively pursuing this form of financial partnership, note that under existing capital adequacy requirements, the

In my own simplistic language, banks lend: they do not tend to invest.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 03:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... institutions as far back as our history stretches, the idea that Peer to Peer networks will eliminate regular habits of behavior and suddenly people will start making conscious decisions for each and every one of their actions, a la neoclassical fantasy economics, is just an outlandish claim.

Maybe you are reading "institutions" in a derivative sense, rather than its fundamental sense? EG, the often described "financial institutions"?


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BruceMcF:
institutions as far back as our history stretches, the idea that Peer to Peer networks will eliminate regular habits of behavior and suddenly people will start making conscious decisions for each and every one of their actions, a la neoclassical fantasy economics, is just an outlandish claim.

..and it's not a claim I'm making.

BruceMcF:

Maybe you are reading "institutions" in a derivative sense, rather than its fundamental sense?

Possibly.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:16:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... institutions in the fundamental sense ... the sense of the definition that I gave at the front of my comment ... is that you say:
I see no future for institutions or organisations in the emerging post-Internet "Peer to Peer" economy. I see the future in networked self organisation within consensually negotiated legal framework agreements.

Since a legal framework is a formal institution, supported by informal institutions, and consensual negotiations rest in part on informal institutions, often supported by formal institutions, this is saying there is no role for social institutions because the future will be dominated by activity in the context of a named list of social institutions.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I'll stick to "organisations" in future if that is how "institutions" are to be defined.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... themselves "institutions" because it sounds so much more august, but social institutions are the regular patterns of social behaviour combined with the folkviews of participants regarding those patterns of behaviour.

Financial enterprises may be more to the point ... there will be going concerns engaged in providing the peer to peer networks, but under your thesis, they will finding ways to make money off of the communications traffic they generate, rather than from taking a financial stake in the process of extending credit, so they would not be financial enterprises as such.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your assumption seems to be that the nodes in a network will be of somehow comparable size and power.

That is not obvious, necessarily true or even (in my view) likely to be true: it seems to me that you've managed to hide institutions and organisations away in the details of your peer-to-peer network.

When it comes down to it, everything in human society is a peer-to-peer network with some structure on top.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
Your assumption seems to be that the nodes in a network will be of somehow comparable size and power.

Where do you get that idea from?

Colman:

When it comes down to it, everything in human society is a peer-to-peer network with some structure on top.

Correct.

Our current conflicted and obscure legal and financial overlay or "structure" is the problem, and it is here that changes are not just necessary, but already taking place.

I see a decentralised and non-hierarchical network of networked partnership protocols coming about bottom up to gradually make the existing system redundant.  But it's not a case of "either/or", rather of organic evolution.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:26:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I see a reasonably chance that your new network turning into something like the old one very quickly.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:30:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...and your suggested solution is?

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably putting in place a collection of laws and such things to try and equalise the power disparities.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
....and what is the difference between "a collection of laws and such things" and networked partnership protocols other than that the former is imposed willy nilly by gubmint and the latter are agreed between consenting adults?

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah now. That's an interesting way of putting it.

Is this just a reformulation of libertarianism then?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 at 04:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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