Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
That's indeed what I'm saying : political elites and local media -  often owned by the same foreign (Anglo-Saxon, German) mainstream media which propagates pro-NATO values on the Western end of Europe.

The key to mind control is information control.

by vladimir on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 06:50:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's be clear, just like Frank describes how NATO membership is a non-starter in Irenland and Sven relates how there was a short-lived attempt in the last coupld of years to bring NATO membership into the mainstream in Finland, no "serious" political party in Western Europe advocates leaving NATO. For instance, in Spain that debate ended in 1986 and there's a "consensus" since. NATO membership is not an issue. I suppose the same is true in other countries.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 07:03:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In France, Nicolas SARKOZY - a known pro NATO advocate (and whose presidential campaign was - I suspect - financed in part by some US military-industrial organisation) wants to take the country back into the alliance without as much as a public debate.

The Socialists are opposed as is the center MODEM led by François BAYROU. Are these 'serious' political parties? BAYROU is calling on the government to organise a referendum on the issue. I would certainly support that. But if it's not on the agenda, it's because the French would vote NO. Vive la démocracie.

by vladimir on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 07:20:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
France has been in NATO but "out of its military structure", whatever that meant.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 08:24:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It means the US doesn't own French nukes and boots - as it owns the UK's nukes and boots - but France and the rest of NATO still talk to each other.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 01:09:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What a reassuring concept for the UK.
by vladimir on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 01:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's called an "'independent' nuclear deterrent".

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 01:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A small but interesting fact is that there are now about 50,000 Russian-speakers living in Finland and the number could double in just five years, according to a recent report. It is the third most used language.

Many of these Russian 'immigrants' are highly educated - something that Finnish companies and institutions have been slow to react to.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 07:27:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Helsingin Sanomat: Report: Russian-speakers often suffer abuse at school and at work

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 07:29:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are also a lot of ethnic Russians in Latvia - I'm not sure of the figures for other Baltic states, but overall there must be quite a significant Russian population already within the EU.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 10:03:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those people are stateless or at best second-hand citizens and they have been let down by all three of Russia, the Baltic countries and the EU. We have discussed them here on ET before. See


Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 10:18:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Many thanks - I knew there was  problem, but had not read up on it.  I suspect this is an issue I could raise on the Thinkaboutit site and annoy some of the east Europeans there.  There appears to be quite a strong nationalist and Eurosceptic streak in that collective - I hesitate to use the word community.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 10:21:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Occasional Series