Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
"the vindictive morality of the old testament"

The morality of the Old Testament is a fact ever since the colonisation of North America.

"which is repetaedly told that abortion is murder"

I suppose you mean to deny that there actually is a living creature in there, whose life is stopped during the procedure.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 03:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose you mean to deny that there actually is a living creature in there, whose life is stopped during the procedure.

Well Biologically and biblically it's debateable

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 04:19:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, what is debateable is whether it can be considered human being yet, or not. The quality of being alive and kicking :) is not.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 08:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, before the foetus is viable, the question is whether it should can be considered a parasite or not?

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 04:25:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this supposed to be provocative ? I didn't mention viability here. Until then, your speaking of parasites lies in the same category as JakeS's chicken egg-sterilization post. I'd really like the opinion of a few bloggers having experienced motherhood on this kind of language, because to me it is of the exact same fascist type as those instigating to the murder of abortion doctors.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 10:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretending to take the high ground could be unwise - especially if you total the long, long list of dead bodies in the old testament.

Don't make me quote Exodus 11:5 - I'm really not in the mood for that kind of silliness.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 04:40:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just stating a historical fact. No higher ground taking. Yet another assumption of bad faith....

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 08:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eh? Where?

You're saying old testament violence began with the American Revolution?

What?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 03:53:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, you misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't express clearly. I meant to say that America has been practically built on this kind of old testament morals, hence it's no surprise it's still there.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot franša) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 10:09:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Depends on which America you're talking about. The original colonists were indeed religious nuts. But the framers of the CONUS were building an explicitly secular state. If you want to convince yourself of that, try to see how many of the 10 Commandments it would be outright unconstitutional to enforce by law. (Hint: It's more than five.)

The US is a big place with a long(ish) history.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 04:15:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose you mean to deny that there actually is a living creature in there, whose life is stopped during the procedure.

That is also true for slaughtering a pig or sterilising a chicken egg. Doesn't make either of those murder.

Sorry, no points. Please try again.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 05:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
also end this sub-thread, please, guys!

Jerome is debating the "terrorist" on the front page...
As I said above, it had been an issue that religion in the political debate was undesired at ET, well, that was before this murder made the headlines.

It has become clear that religion cannot be excluded from the political debate on ET.

It would be possible, if no political affairs within religious contexts were ever debated at ET.

 

by Lily (put - lilyalmond - here <a> yahaah.france) on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 at 06:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
heh, wasn't it you who said that conflict was interesting?

it's fascinating seeing how much education there is in the argument, bringing the best out of folks' reasoning.

it's as lovely as hearing a guitar being tuned.

exploring dissonance and then twisting the pegs...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 09:51:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Religion as a justification for public policy has no place in rational discourse.

Religion as a social phenomenon is clearly important and should be analysed, deconstructed and understood.

Arguing that abortion is wrong because your religious text says so is an example of the former. Noting that the American fascist movement congregates around a number of extremist Calvinist churches is an example of the latter.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 04:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Top Diaries

Impeachment gets real

by ARGeezer - Jan 17
21 comments

A Final Warning

by Oui - Jan 10
112 comments

Environment Anarchists

by Oui - Jan 13
4 comments

More Spanish repression

by IdiotSavant - Jan 6
8 comments

Occasional Series