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So, is Britain a democracy or what?  This system sounds very authoritarian to me.  :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 04:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Structures within the Parties vary, and these will differ from the structure of the political system ie Parliament.  British politics is democratic but inside the party system it can be a whole different picture.

You vote for your Presidential candidates in the US in a way we don't do here - we (party members) vote for our candidates to stand as MPs and Assembly Members but we don't vote for who should be Prime Minister or Leader of the Party.  

Local councillors are selected by panels of party officers at constituency level.

I understand the Presidential candidate voting within US parties but do members vote for senator candidates too or are they selected?

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 04:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we (party members) vote for our candidates to stand as MPs

I haven't found this specific finished regulation with a quick search, but here it is at proposal stage:

`Reselect all Labour MPs' - News - The Independent

Monday, 16 November 1998

ONE OF Tony Blair's most trusted party modernisers last night heightened the row over Labour's "control freakery" with a call for all sitting MPs to be vetted by re-selection panels.

Fraser Kemp, the party's former general election co-ordinator, said even cabinet ministers should be subject to Millbank approval.

Mr Kemp, MP for Houghton and Washington East, said the system would root out members who attacked the Government "every five minutes".

The suggestion, backed by senior officials, is likely to be seen as a "softening-up exercise" ahead of a move to introduce the change at the next party conference. MPs would be interviewed by an NEC panel similar to those set up to vet candidates for councils, the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly and London mayoralty.

Critics say the system has been used to block left-wing candidates in Scotland and Wales and will be used to halt Ken Livingstone in London.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 04:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it was the 2005 elections when they ratcheted this up one more.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 04:59:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, you are right.  Vetting panels select the MP candidates.  This is (one of many reasons) why I would never bother standing since I know I'd not get through the vetting or be put in a winnable seat.

One member, one vote is for Assembly Member candidates from the shortlist (branches nominate candidates to the shortlist).  MEPs are selected by vetting panels.  Then the constituency meetings are asked to approve this.

Would anyone like a diary on the AM selection process we've been going through here?

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I may be mistaken, but haven't you diaried just that about a year ago?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A year ago would have been the local council elections, the AM selection process is new to all of us and we are still part way through.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hm... I am not at all certain, but I think it was a different story from your two battling councillors. Or maybe it was a long comment... Anyway, if I can't find it and you don't remember anything like it, and especially if its practice is new stuff for you, of course write about it!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:21:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you mean by members?

Anyone who meets some basic criteria, which varies from position to position, but basically boils down to proof of citizenship and lack of seriously criminal record, can run for office in America.  Parties don't decide who can run.  They are free to choose which campaigns to aid.  That's about it.  Of course, party backing is very helpful.  But I know people who run as democrats but refuse money from party organizations.

Most elections are like the Presidential election.  First, you have to collect a certain number of signatures to get on the ballot.  Those signatures have to be from people who live in the place you are running to represent.  Then you get on a Primary ballot, and voters go to the polls and vote for a nominee.  Any who is registered to vote can vote in the Primary, but in most cases, you can only vote in the Primary of one Party (so you can't choose who will represent your opposition.)  After the Primary elections are held and the nominations are official, the nominees run in a general election.  This is the case for almost all elections, at all levels of government.  But it varies from state to state.  Some states or offices have non-partisan elections, which means you run on your credentials, etc. and not party affiliation.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean party members - people who join the party and pay their subs.  If people want to stand on behalf of party they must be members and must be selected by the party to be an official candidate, through whichever mechanism depending on the process for that political office.

Recently with our local council elections two people in my branch wanted to stand as councillor (they got on the on the shortlist following vetting).  The branch interviewed both (and could have interviewed others on the shortlist who lived outside the boundaries of our ward but chose not to.)  We chose one and the other kicked off a huge fuss over it and then stood as a candidate anyway. He was expelled from the party for doing that, and stood as an Independent which required no vetting (and lost).

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:15:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In my demented American head this is profoundly undemocratic.  In fact, I'm as certain as McFaul is about Russia not being a democracy that Britain is not a democracy.

Signed,
Arrogant American who goes around expecting everyone to conform to my obviously superior political system, while still able to acknowledge your superior healthcare system.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah well in our demented UK heads, we see you as being stuck in your 4 year cycles, having no democratic way to have a new election, if you need one now.

And what about that win an election in November, presidents don't change till January. The people have spoken, and you've been kicked to the kerb. How democratic is that that you get to hang on for three more months? ;)

Swings and roundabouts. ;)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And what about that win an election in November, presidents don't change till January

True, but our country and bureaucracy are five times the size of yours, and it takes a while to find enough qualified tax-cheats to fill the vacancies. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:46:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That too.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
several hours later, im still shocked that the bastion of capitalism has a shortage of tax cheats ;)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 08:37:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bastion of capitalism?  Wasn't one of the big European papers going on about us becoming commies the other day?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 09:58:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh I don't know - something to do with time to put together a cabinet, agenda, arrange for the move, enroll your kids in their new school, celebrate the holidays.

Russia has a lag time too.  Must be a fascist thing...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well you know you'd have thought that an agenda would have been arranged ahead of time.....

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I don't think so.  Unless you mean agenda like, "I am pro-healtchare."  Yes, those things are laid out ahead of an election.  By agenda, I mean, figuring out everything that needs to be done, making a strategy for implementing it, and creating a timetable.  And a more or less daily schedule for your first 100 days.  It's a very good time to put together your team, and then together with your team, make all the decisions you can before your are thrust into the job and have reality and the media distracting you every waking moment of your day.  

Preparation is a huge part of any task.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:35:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So how does just about every other democracy manage?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was unaware until now it was rare.  The only two countries I really pay close attention to both do it.  

Is every other democracy managing?  Screw that, there are no democracies.  Is Britain managing?  Not according to this diary.  Are presidents of all other countries faced with the same tasks that the president of America is?  I don't think so.  We're a big country, and we have big plans.  :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:45:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plus you have Monarchs for continuity.  We have to transition.  It's like, you are in a marriage for life, but replace your lovers.  We go through a divorce and re-marriage every 4-8 years.  We want to make it as painless as possible.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plus you have Monarchs for continuity.

True, but we do have David Broder, and between our two countries, I think the Brits clearly got the better deal.  And at least she comes with the entertaining husband.

We go through a divorce and re-marriage every 4-8 years.  We want to make it as painless as possible.

Yes.  We hated the last ex so much that, seven years after 9/11, we said, "Hey, you know what would be good?  A black guy with a Muslim name."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Party officials start working on all that stuff in advance. Runs the risk of actual plans being discussed in the elections though.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you were a "Real DemocracyTM" you'd have thought that would be a necessity.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think the party sets the agenda for the President in the US.  I think it is the other way around.  So it would be not only risky, but impractical.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The people has spoken and the electors been elected. They still need to ride to Washington and there elect a president. Takes time, you know.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Think of how the US parties functioned before open primaries became standard. And then think of how they functioned before primaries became standard. At what point did the US become democratic?

Imo, this does not make Britain undemocratic, it makes the brittish parties undemocratic.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure open primaries are standard, or necessary for democracy.

I don't know when Americans first began voting for elected officials.  Near the begining, I presume.  That is, the country was founded as a democracy.  In practice, the fabric of our democracy is like a bikini.  Pretty flimsy, but it covers the main things.

Mind you, we still have the electoral college in the case of the Presidential elections.

I believe everyone else is nominated and elected by popular vote.  Although god knows what they do in Iowa.  They probably read tea leaves or something to pick candidates.

I'm not convinced the US is democratic.  I am, however, eternally thankful we won the revolution.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you hadn't, you'd be Canada.

And wouldn't that be a bad thing.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can beat me over the head if you want, poemless, but we have had the exact same discussion about primaries and party candidate selection and only paying members being able to vote in primaris, and so on... years ago.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:41:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't have a strong opinion on whether open primaries or closed primaries are superior, although I obviously like having the ability to choose candidates from the parties if I have a strong opinion.

On the one hand, it's fair that people who care enough about the party and its politics to join and pay for it might say they should be able to decide.  On the other hand, I kinda like this whole...uh..."winning" thing (this is word, yes? ;) we've been trying out for the last couple of years, and so letting the indies and Reps who are leaning our way have a say in it isn't such a bad idea for the party.  And they like having a say in it, because our primaries are exciting, while the other party's primaries -- let's be honest -- blow.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone can run in an election in the UK (barring they meet some criterias).

Just like anyone can run as third party candidate in a US presidential race. That just won't win, that's all.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:25:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't there an independent MP from Wales?

BTW, askod, you can keep your sig...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:27:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Peter Law - Wikipedia
Peter John Law (1 April 1948 - 25 April 2006) was a Welsh politician.

Law left the Labour Party in protest at the use of an all-woman shortlist in selecting the candidate for the general election, which was used to replace the retiring Llew Smith. Law believed all-woman shortlists were being selectively imposed on local parties only where a leadership supported male candidate was unlikely to be selected, citing the example of Ed Balls and Pat McFadden as new leadership-supported male candidates, and noting that use of all-woman shortlists had been stopped in Scotland.

Smith had enjoyed a majority of 19,313, making it the safest parliamentary seat in Wales. Law won the seat with 58.2% of the vote, defeating Labour candidate Maggie Jones, and gaining a majority of 9,121 votes.

Though the point is: independents are rather the exception.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And there's always the elected mayor H'Angus (A former football mascot (an utterly bizzare and silly story)) who has just been re-elected for a second time yesterday.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
H'Angus - Wikipedia
H'An
, Stuart Drummond - Wikipedia

ROTFLMAO!....

Only in Am... Britain...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:46:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and where the name comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In 2002, Stuart Drummond campaigned for the office of Mayor of Hartlepool in the costume of the local football team's mascot, 'H'Angus the Monkey'. He narrowly won. His election slogan had been "free bananas for schoolchildren", a promise he was unable to keep. Despite this, he stood again three years later and won with a landslide victory.

How do you fail to provide bananas to school children???

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it wasn't in the budget.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 06:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I exaggerated. It happens, but rarely enough to illustrate why internal party processes are rather important (just like in the US btw).

And, well at least that is something. Not having to change sig I mean.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
People do win, but only if they have an exceptionally strong local following, or a very strong national one, or if they're standing in opposition to the reigning party and there's enough local feeling to give it a poke in the eye.

There will be a handful of seats like this in every election.

But otherwise - yes, the party selection process is completely sealed and authoritarian, and will ruthlessly disenfranchise anyone with a dissenting opinion.

But the flip side of it is that once someone has been elected, it's hard to deselect them without setting up a very contrived challenge.9

Someone canny with good acting skills might be able to game the system by pretending to believe one thing while believing something very different.

If they were really good at acting they might even get to be prime minister.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:36:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most elections are like the Presidential election.  First, you have to collect a certain number of signatures to get on the ballot.  Those signatures have to be from people who live in the place you are running to represent.  Then you get on a Primary ballot, and voters go to the polls and vote for a nominee.  Any who is registered to vote can vote in the Primary, but in most cases, you can only vote in the Primary of one Party (so you can't choose who will represent your opposition.)  After the Primary elections are held and the nominations are official, the nominees run in a general election.  This is the case for almost all elections, at all levels of government.  But it varies from state to state.  Some states or offices have non-partisan elections, which means you run on your credentials, etc. and not party affiliation.

Hang on, you skipped the part where they throw half the black folks off the voter rolls.  Or is that just a Florida thing?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 11:53:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
_You vote for your Presidential candidates in the US in a way we don't do here - we (party members) vote for our candidates to stand as MPs and Assembly Members but we don't vote for who should be Prime Minister or Leader of the Party. _

But not every party member can stand for election as prospective MP candidate, can they? The party vets members and proposes a short list.

American primaries (yes, also for Congresspeople, and state legislators) are, on paper, totally open.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Every party member can put themselves forward for selection but yes they have to be vetted to get on the shortlist - there's nothing I've said that contradicts that.  I said that I wouldn't bother because I know I wouldn't either get through the vetting or be put in a winnable seat if I did.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 03:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
AFAIK the LIbDems do vet candidates but don't restrict which seat you can try to be nominated to after you've been successfully vetted.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 05:23:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep thinking we should start a party. It's probably the only way to get the job done.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:02:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
2010 is going to be a once-in-a-generation opportunity to capture disaffected voters.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From being active in a start-up party I would suggest the following as a basic check-list:

  • make a list of policy positions the party supports
  • identify a group which should feel unrepresented and willing to vote for the policy proposals
  • use the internet for organising (webbpage, forum, blogs etc)
  • create an easy template on how to get a local chapter/group/whatever up and running

And be prepared to put in a lot of work.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On paper, yes.

It was instructive to follow Bill Wyatt - t-shirt salesman from California - that tried to run against George Bush in the 2004 republican primaries. In most states there was no way for him to enter as the primaries had already been decided by local party leadership in favor of Bush. The motivation tended to be that no primary was necessary as there were no other candidates, since none had been reported in the newspapers.

So there is a vetting, it just looks different.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 05:27:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... primary that decides contested races all the way down ... Senate, House of Representatives, Governor, State Senator, State House of Representatives. There's more variety at the municipal level, but primary elections are more the rule than the exception for both state and federal offices.

And the alternative is normally caucuses, which are effectively party branch meetings, so even the less democratic of the common American institutions tends to be more responsive to local political pressure than the Blair-ite New Labour institutions.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 10:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Parties are not very democratic. In Britain they are all (and especially Labour) afraid of entryism because of the recent memory of the Militant Tendency within the Labour Party.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is probably true, but still ridiculous, because the last time the Militants had any real influence was during the poll tax riots.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 06:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and even then they had very little to do with the actual riots. They were however extremely helpfull in providing support and training for people doing court dates when we were trying to clog up the court system, and inproviding legal backup when protests ended up with arrests. But then so were Socialist worker, and Black Flag. Militant Tendancy seemed to have far more thorough planning, and socialist worker had the printing press.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 07:21:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, is Britain a democracy or what?

No. Like he US they have first-past-the-post elections.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:38:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And like France...

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 09:49:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You also have the problem with the huge barriers of entry in a non-proportional system.

As a non-labour or non-tory pol you're never going to get any real power and your only perk is the chance to line your pockets. Funny how the systems almost seems designed to corrupt and co-opt new political parties and movements...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:28:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is amended slightly for the Welsh Assembly - 40 seats are filled by proportional representation and the remaining 20 by, I forget what it is called, to balance things out a little. Hence how we have a coalition Government.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:32:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Under mixed member proportional representation a type of additional member system[24][25] Forty of the AMs are elected from single-member constituencies on a plurality voting system (or first past the post) basis, the constituencies being equivalent to those used for the House of Commons and twenty AMs are elected from regional closed lists using an alternative party vote.[26] There are five regions Mid and West Wales, North Wales, South Wales Central, South Wales East and South Wales West (these are the same as the pre 1999 European Parliament constituencies for Wales), each of which returns four members.[26] The additional members produce a degree of proportionality within each region.[26] Whereas voters can choose any regional party list irrespective of their party vote in the constituency election, list AMs are not elected independently of the constituency element, rather elected constituency AMs are deemed to be pre-elected list representatives for the purposes of calculating remainders in the d'Hondt method.[26] Overall proportionality is limited by the low proportion of list members (33% of the Assembly compared to 43% in the Scottish Parliament and 50% in the German Bundestag) and the regionalisation of the list element.[27] Consequently the Assembly as a whole has a greater degree of proportionality (based on proportions in the list elections) than the plurality voting system used for UK parliamentary elections, but still deviates somewhat from proportionality.[27]
(wikipedia)

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:38:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hooray for wiki.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 at 11:46:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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