A 36 Year Media Failure | 177 comments (177 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

British patriotism/nationalism (4.00 / 6)

ThatBritGuy: Brown has never been an aggressive Euro-skeptic, he's seen as someone who plays for the away team, and not a staunch patriot

in the UK, is there a sentiment then among Britain-firsters and Euroskeptics that by being for Europe, one is betraying one's country, not being patriotic, hating one's country, hating freedom, and so on? i always presumed that it was not so much a matter of tribalistic national loyalty, but rather something closer to national arrogance and ignorance about the practical cost-benefits of EU membership, a notion that Britain does it better than the feckless Continentals. in contrast, embracing an internationalist or non-American point of view in the U.S. lays one open to accusations of being un-American = anti-American. does a similar dynamic exist in Britain, i.e. by saying that one is for Europe, it is a short step to being called disloyal to one's country, if not a traitor outright?

if not, then there is more room for propagandizing the benefits of EU membership without having to waste time and energy defending oneself against attacks of disloyalty and treason.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 03:54:15 PM EST
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Re: British patriotism/nationalism (4.00 / 3)

I'd say yes to an extent. The sovereignty of this Island is paramount. The EU makes the UK peripheral, tells us what to do, tries to destroy our autonomy, and in doing so is destroying what makes Britain great! The pound sterling makes Britain great. Not the euro.

So if you are for the EU, you are willfully letting Britain go to rack and ruin. There isn't real logic to it. But that is the view of the 'patriots'.

Others who are anti EU are so because they see European Parliament as an irrelevant, undemocratic, wasteful body that brings no real benefit. Others are anti-EU simply because they haven't heard any reason not to be, they are ill informed.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 04:16:53 PM EST
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Re: British patriotism/nationalism (4.00 / 4)

Are there polls that shed light on who are the Euro-skeptics in the UK (e.g. by age, geography, education, occupation, etc.) and how many of them there are? And are there any indications that younger British are significantly more EU-friendly than their elders?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 05:29:34 PM EST
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Re: British patriotism/nationalism (4.00 / 4)

I'm interested in that, too. It was one of the frustrating things about the BBC's coverage: There wasn't any data gathered on demographics and motivations, so the "What does it mean?"-type questions were left completely up to spin.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 06:33:45 PM EST
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Re: British patriotism/nationalism (none / 1)

The US does a much better job of exit polling.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:03:14 AM EST
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Re: British patriotism/nationalism (none / 1)

Good question and I don't know. I would expect there to be analysis of this in some detail over the coming months but whether it will be from this angle I'm not sure. I'll look about to see if I can find such stats.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:05:24 AM EST
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Re: British patriotism/nationalism (4.00 / 5)

The odd thing about Euroscepticism is that it's often the most aggressively Eurosceptic who are most keen to take advantage of the benefits of being in the EU.

Take (please), the Costa Brits with their depreciating Spanish villas and loud wails that their failure to learn Spanish in the five years they've been living there puts them at a disadvantage in the local job market.

Or the UKIP voting (I think) GP next door who plans to retire to Germany for the better health care.

I honestly don't know how to start negotiating with mindsets like that.

by Sassafras on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 04:19:20 PM EST
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A Day Without the EU (4.00 / 3)

Sassafras: The odd thing about Euroscepticism is that it's often the most aggressively Eurosceptic who are most keen to take advantage of the benefits of being in the EU.

if the UK left the EU, how significantly would life change for these people? and how significantly would life change for British people in general? (i could speculate based on the list of benefits articulated by the EU Commission, but that would be more guess work than anything grounded in reality.)

there is a movie called A Day Without a Mexican (see trailer below). maybe there is a role for a movie called A Day Without the EU.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 05:36:38 PM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 1)

For a start, our bananas can be banana shaped again!

And then we can see an attack on our employment rights and equality legislation.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:07:23 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 1)

For a lot of the anti-EU crowd, those are good things. Equality rights aren't for normal, proper English people.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:12:04 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 1)

Just abnormal bastards and state spongers like me.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:15:03 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 1)

Yup. Don't forget the darkies as well..

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:22:05 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 0)

I caught a bit of the report on one of the British channels last night about a BNP voter and is was just insane: starts with "What's wrong with being patriotic?" and got madder and madder until it reached "What's wrong with wanting Christmas?"

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 03:26:20 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 1)

That's the constant media drumbeat.

Example:

School cancels Christmas nativity in favour of Muslim Eid celebrations - Telegraph

A junior school has cancelled its Christmas performances because they got in the way of the Muslim children celebrating Eid.
Greenwood Junior School sent out a letter to parents saying the three day festival of Eid al-Adha, which takes place between 8-11 December, meant that Muslim children would be off school.
That meant planning for a traditional pantomime were shelved because the school felt it would be too difficult to run both celebrations side by side.
The move has left parents furious.

See the "related articles".

I linked in another comment to a BBC piece about a report on "citizenship lessons" in Schools which drew criticism because it mentioned discussing the slave trade, the legacy of Empire, and the European Union.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:02:51 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (none / 0)

I guess that calling for a Euro-Christmas campaign would be considered unserious and earn me a 2.

Though how you go about being more unserious than the UK euro-sceptics is beyond me.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:18:08 AM EST
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Re: A Day Without the EU (4.00 / 4)