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The actual meat of the matter is so technical that one might wonder what the hoopla is all about.

Except that these technicalities have the potential to delay Lisbon - or even derail it.

I'm curious to see if the legislators will get it right the second time around.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 at 02:15:13 PM EST
European Tribune - Germany, Lisbon and Due Process
So formally, the Treaty as such was never challenged.

"Getting it right" may be something of a moving target.  It seems that it was the implementation process which was being challenged.  It would really be helpful if this was resolved prior to the Irish referendum.  We don't need further scare stories on the lines of "even the Germans aren't sure about the Treaty because it doesn't safeguard/undermines the German democratic process".

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 at 02:54:55 PM EST
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Frank Schnittger:
We don't need further scare stories on the lines of "even the Germans aren't sure about the Treaty because it doesn't safeguard/undermines the German democratic process".

Well, strictly speaking the issue is decided as far as Germany is concerned, regardless of whether they finish cutting the paperwork: the Treaty is in conformity with the Basic Law provided that any bridge clause changes require the positive consent of the legislative houses. Although I realize such nuances can be difficult to communicate.

Another horror scenario would be if the Bundestag cuts corners in an effort to get the bill passed by (I would guess) sometime in August (remember, there's an election here at the end of September). Because we can be sure the opponents will go over the resulting law with a fine tooth comb looking for weak points that they can go back to court with. I don't know Irish politics but I imagine that might be even less helpful.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 at 03:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably the best line to take - from an Irish perspective - is that the Lisbon Treaty has been found to be compatible with the German Constitution and the nuances of how they choose to implement it is a matter for the Germans themselves. The german elections will, presumably, also return a pro-Lisbon majority just before the irish vote.

The key issue is whether the Treaty has been ratified by Germany by the time the Irish vote.  That will then just leave the Czechs and Poles - who have, bizarrely, said they will ratify if Ireland does.  Perhaps the Irish should vote for their Governments as well if they are going to be empowered to tell them what to do.

And then of course there is the question of whether Brown survives that long...

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 at 04:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a rather cross-party-line agreement on being an exemplary European country in Germany (except when real interests come into play - they don't here), and Germany was the main driver behind the Lisbon Treaty in the first place. The factions in the Bundestag are looking to complete the ratification before the second Irish referendum. Politics isn't going to play into this except from the side of the Left Party, which might make it into a campaign issue.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 at 01:49:23 PM EST
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