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Does that make us crass?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 04:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shrill, perhaps. Supposedly.

W(h)ither the Left is well worth a separate diary.

It's the most important question now.

When Keynes is seen as some kind of wacky tripped-out hippy extremist by the so-called Official Left, politics has gone far beyond plain dysfunction into outright suicidal insanity.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 05:14:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Keynes they know about so they can denounce him. But to me the fact that John Stuart Mill, a well-off mid-19th century English liberal that nobody bothers to criticize because they don't know about him, is noticeably to the left of present-day European Social Democrats has been scaring the bejeezus out of me for some time now.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 05:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Keynes wasn't a Socialist, either...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 05:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, he wasn't.

The way Krugman puts it, it's remarkable what the conventional wisdom says about Keynes...

Keynes did not, despite what you may have heard, want the government to run the economy. He described his analysis in his 1936 masterwork, "The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money," as "moderately conservative in its implications." He wanted to fix capitalism, not replace it. But he did challenge the notion that free-market economies can function without a minder, expressing particular contempt for financial markets, which he viewed as being dominated by short-term speculation with little regard for fundamentals. And he called for active government intervention -- printing more money and, if necessary, spending heavily on public works -- to fight unemployment during slumps.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 05:28:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Mill was friendly towards some sort of socialism, in fact he considred himself a socialist of some sort, if I'm not mistaken. In fact I have the general impression that he can be considered some sort of ancestral influence on British socialism...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 05:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did write about Mill's opinions on socialism here on ET.
We are too ignorant either of what individual agency in its best form, or Socialism in its best form, can accomplish, to be qualified to decide which of the two will be the ultimate form of human society.

If a conjecture may be hazarded, the decision will probably depend mainly on one consideration, viz. which of the two systems is consistent with the greatest amount of human liberty and spontaneity.

I believe he correctly predicted the way in which "real socialism" would fail in this respect in the 20th Century by degenerating into totalitarianism.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 05:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Léon Walras was a socialist, too. He was in avour of the nationalization of land and he actively promoted the co-operative movement.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 06:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Given that Walrus considered himself a gradualist socialist it is highly ironic that he is probably best known today for the neo-classicals who resort to the IS-LM model and invoke Walrus' Law to avoid having to provide a real model of the labor markets. (The assumption is that if the capital and the goods markets are in equilibrium, then, per Walrus' Law, the labor markets must also be in equilibrium.) A socialist who comes to be known for providing justification for ignoring labor markets!  Steve Keen has written interesting posts that deal with the subject recently.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Sep 27th, 2009 at 11:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"The time has come," Walras said
"To talk of many things:
Of stocks--and bonuses--and default swaps--
Of green shoots--and CEOs--
And why the market is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 28th, 2009 at 12:00:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"The time has come", Herr Walrus said,
"To speak of many things,
Of default swaps and CDOs,
Of bonuses and CEOs,
And why the market is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."...

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Sep 28th, 2009 at 12:44:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those sweetwater people apparently don't even know anything about Keynes either.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Mon Sep 28th, 2009 at 02:44:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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