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The stimulus saved the US wind industry in 2009 | 63 comments (63 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: new installations only (none / 1)
because your whole premise is based on saying that only 6GW will have been built in Europe last year, a number you pulled out of incomplete and voluntarily approximative data on the proportion of offshore in the total, and you then jumped right into a "Europe is declining theme" which I find exasperating, and not just from the WSJ.


I was disappointed to see the EU lose much of its political leadership position on the issue at Copenhagen.

As far as I can tell, the EU lost the leadership of nothing: China, the US and others all happily agreed between themsleves to ignore the problem and do nothing. That's not leadership, that's denial.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 11:48:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 0)
No, my whole premise was that I could ask a civil question based on approximate data you had provided and get a civil reply. Noting that Europe installed less new capacity than the US may not be on message for an EU PR flunkey but that is not my role.  Neither do I parrot a WSJ "Europe is declining" meme and I would thank you for not seeking to brand me with that ideology.

As for Copenhagen, you must be one of the few people that doesn't think that it represented a setback for attempts to mitigate climate change and the EU's attempt to lead that process forward.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 01:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 0)
Neither do I parrot a WSJ "Europe is declining" meme

You kicked off this whole meandering subthread with

EU being left behind again?


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 03:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 0)
I think it was the "again" that rubbed people the wrong way, because it implies a trend of being overtaken by other powers. Such a trend does not seem to be in evidence.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 03:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 0)
The again was actually a reference to the Copenhagen debacle where the EU had been in a leadership position but was left out of the talks which led to what little agreement was eventually reached.

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 06:44:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 1)
There was nothing in the initial comment to indicate that this was a Copenhagen reference, so you have to acknowledge at least that you left yourself open to misinterpretation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:07:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 0)
So no one is allowed to ask the question whether it is possible that the EU is falling behind in some aspect or other without being accused of being a silly WSJ neo-lib?  A simple factual reply - such as that provided by CH - would have sufficed.

Indeed I was glad to read his comments that the 2009 rate of installation in the EU need not be a cause for concern - although I am concerned that progress in Ireland seems to have slowed and the senior manager from the ESB I spoke to seemed to have little time for wind power as a priority despite the fact that the ESB's own strategic plan calls for a €22 Billion investment in renewable energy and a commitment to generate one third of all power from renewables by 2020.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 07:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: new installations only (none / 0)
So no one is allowed to ask the question whether it is possible that the EU is falling behind in some aspect

See discussion of "again" elsewhere. (And your above reply could have reflected that, coming after your reply to JakeS.)

A simple factual reply - such as that provided by CH - would have sufficed.

Your thread-starter wasn't or at least couldn't be read obviously as a simple factual question, you have to see that.

I am concerned that progress in Ireland seems to have slowed

I would more characterise the situation there as "still hasn't taken off". 2008 installations were 208 MW, this year's seem to be 250 MW (Or maybe even 500 MW -- it's confusing because the Irish Wind Energy Association's statistics page is a mess, and they seem to insist on including Northern Ireland in Ireland.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:17:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well, (none / 1)
don't put "Europe left behind again" as your title if you have such innocuous intentions.


As for Copenhagen, you must be one of the few people that doesn't think that it represented a setback for attempts to mitigate climate change and the EU's attempt to lead that process forward.

Where did I say that it was not a setback for attempts to mitigate climate change? All I said is that it is easy to "lead" to a deal if the deal is to do nothing. That the EU was not involved in such deal is not a valid criticism of its leadership. Its leadership is demonstrated by the fact that it is the only one to have binding targets on itself - and it has the credibility of having met the Kyoto targets it imposed on itself in the 90s. Whether these targets are enough is another issue, but at least the EU has acted, both in setting goals and, so far, in fulfilling them.

The only way to pull China in will be through an all out trade war, and I expect we'll get there eventually, if no deal happens.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 03:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: well, (none / 0)
We would have to purge a number of Quisling governments first.

Starting with the COP15 hosts...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 10:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The stimulus saved the US wind industry in 2009 | 63 comments (63 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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