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The day I am no longer discriminated against in employment for being a woman, be it through wage differentials, assumptions about the worth and value of jobs that women do, or gender roles restricting my choice in the place I take up across the work/home divide; is the day that you can have an opinion about childbirth.
That's just great. Anything else you are going to deny people the right to have an opinion about because of a grievance you have with third persons?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 04:07:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Though I entirely disagree with that statement by In Wales, I find

Migeru:

a grievance you have with third persons

to be an unnecessarily belittling description of the discrimination women face and that she sets out.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 04:27:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If she's in the business of defining what others can or cannot voice an opinion on, I don't have to take her seriously.

Of course, nobody has to take me seriously either.

Then we can just all stand in our corner talking to ourselves until we're blue in the face.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 04:30:18 AM EST
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It's of no interest whether you take her seriously or not. I am saying that you are reducing discrimination against women to a sneer when you write "a grievance you have with third persons".

But since you appear to stand by it, that's cool.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 04:33:08 AM EST
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I am actually not defining what Colman can and can't say and was hoping it wouldn't be taken that way - it isn't MY opinion but the general attitude of society that I'm referencing there.

I was making the point that the inequality goes both ways.  Because of assigned gender roles, I as a woman am given a particular place in society, just as Colman as a man is given one. Whilst Colman is ascribed an identity that constructs his 'masculinity' and with that an assumption that he can't possibly have an opinion on childbirth, I am ascribed an identity that constructs my 'femininity' and within that a level of authority on matters pertaining to child rearing, even though I've never had a child of my own. But associated with my 'femininity' still, is an assumption that as someone who is 'naturally' inclined to a caring role my instincts will of course better place me for raising a family than doing a demanding job that a man would be better at.

Colman chose a fairly provocative way of setting out this diary, I chose a provocative way of responding to one of his points within it. In reality, all gender roles aside, Colman is proving to be an excellent father to his child and of course has much more right to voicing his opinion on such matters than I do because he has that experience and I don't. I hope I've clarified myself.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 05:09:25 AM EST
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That's better - it did look as if you were deciding who could have an opinion and who couldn't.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 05:37:34 AM EST
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I should have made my snark more obvious.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 05:52:48 AM EST
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