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In general terms, there is hostility on this site against anyone who does not show any respect for human rights or human decency.

And this happens to include inane people who happen to be followers of Christian  beliefs. Which was the original subject of Sven's diary, lest we forget. Perhaps the subject should have stayed on that topic.

by Nomad on Tue Oct 19th, 2010 at 04:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In general terms, there is hostility on this site against anyone who does not show any respect for human rights or human decency.

That's not the way it comes across to me. I see a lot of reactionary attitudes towards the faith of Christians in general, their teachings and what they regard as their holy scripture. I really don't need to provide you with citations... they're quite abundant.

by Lynch on Tue Oct 19th, 2010 at 04:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tough.

A right of free speech and even the right to blasphemy aren't overruled at this forum by "reactionary attitudes towards the faith of Christians".

My advise to you is to learn to live with that.

by Nomad on Tue Oct 19th, 2010 at 05:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see a lot of reactionary attitudes disagreement towards the faith of Christians in general my personal interpretation of Christianity, their my teachings and what they I regard as their holy scripture.

FIFY.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 19th, 2010 at 05:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
MY interpretation? LOL. Check out 2 examples of "objective interpretations":

Coleman on Christianity:

By "neighbour" they normally only mean in-group members, of course.
The others aren't even human.

Eurogreen on Christianity:

which has been a powerful force for evil in the world.

Which sets the general tone... could go on.

Now, just replace "Christianity" / "Bible" with "Islam" / "Quoran" on this site and you'd get what one would call a primitive, extreme right wing community gone on a Mooslim-bashing binge.

Whatever turns you on...

by Lynch on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 12:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman's comment came in response to this question from DoDo:

DoDo:

Do all religions really profess that?

So it was not specific to Christianity as you pretend.

Neither was eurogreen's comment specific to Christianity, but (the word you surely inadvertently omitted) "monotheism".

eurogreen:

monotheism, which has been a powerful force for evil in the world.

Your out-of-context, truncated, and distorted references are in pure bad faith. Isn't there one of the Ten Commandmants against bearing false witness?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 01:46:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, why don't we let Coleman and eurogreen speak for themselves and tell us whether they were referring to Christianity (or not) in their remarks?
by Lynch on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 01:51:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They were, but also to other religions.

And, once and for all, "monotheism" includes Islam. You seem unable to decide if you're trolling this thread on the grounds that "everyone here" is a fundamentalist atheist, or that "everyone here" is an Islam-lover. Make up your mind.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 02:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Whereas, from the Jewish point of view, monotheism includes Islam, but may not include Christianity, at least in the Catholic version. Its Holy Trinity, panoply of saints and so on makes it look suspiciously like polytheism. I've even heard this criticism from Jewish atheists, to whom I respond by asking why does that make it worse.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 02:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL. The influence of monotheism on atheism?

Or the delights of polytheism? (I don't believe in God, but St Anthony did help me find my car keys!)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 02:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The best illustration of my point is a New York Jewish joke about a child in a secular Jewish family who comes home from school and tells her mother about what they learned about the Holy Trinity. The mother gets very upset, and tells her child: "Remember one thing: There is only one God - and we don't believe in him".
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 04:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I conversed with (non-Universalist) Unitarians as well as Muslims making the same point.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 06:36:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll be happy to confirm I meant all religions, including the ten million feuding Christian subcults.

And I'll cheerfully admit to being hostile to the delusions of the religious and their books of occasionally historical fiction.  

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 03:48:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I referred to "monotheism", not "christianity".

I explicitly bracketed Islam and Christianity together as bastard offspring of Judaism.

With respect to your list of categories of people who one might be hostile to : I would qualify it, not by birth into a specific group (the English, the Germans, the Russians etc...) which would be very far indeed from the spirit of ET, as follows

  • American neocons, i.e. those who presided over, and still justify, the abomination of the war in Iraq (and most likely, the extermination of the Amerindians too)

  • English imperialists, i.e. those who adhere to the colonialist doctrine that was in force during the building of the Empire... if any can be found

  • German neo-nazis... no comment

  • Russian neo-Stalinists

  • obscurantist Christians and Muslims who adhere to the hegemonic doctrines of the Inquisition, the Muslim conquests etc

I can't think of anyone here who would not be hostile, justifiably, to all of the above groups.

Back atcha good buddy.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 05:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
German neo-nazis...

Why only German ones? The non-German ones aren't any less worse.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 06:38:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Upon second thought, I could question the nationality restrictions for the others, too.

  • I almost despise European neocons more, for tirelessly working on keeping Europe in vassal status.

  • English imperialism was not worse than, say, Belgian imperialism.

  • What about Georgian neo-Stalinists. And though I didn't have the pleasure to debate a neo-Stalinist, I'm not sure that hostility rather than feeling sorry for them would be my reaction -- they cling to the craziest of nostalgias.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 09:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Precisely my point. You should do the same when discussing extremists of whatever faith... QUALIFY THEM, instead of referring to them as the "Monotheists" - which covers about 4 billion people on the planet.
by Lynch on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 02:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's astounding how your "points" just keep on changing.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 03:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another cheap sling shot.
by Lynch on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 03:31:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To another cheap shifting of the goalposts from you: your previous "point" was that eurogreen specifically targetted Christianity, now you're saying your "point" was that he was using a much broader category.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 03:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow.
Monotheism IS A BROAD CATEGORY which encompasses about 3-4 billion people.
Christianity IS ANOTHER BROAD CATEGORY which encompasses about 1-2 billion people.

My point is that BOTH ARE BROAD and that when treating RELIGION as EVIL, it's necessary TO HAVE A DEFINITION OF WHOM EXACTLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT which is MUCH MORE QUALIFIED THAN "THE MONOTHEISTS" OR "THE CHRISTIANS".

by Lynch on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 04:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're not talking about a who but a what.

We're not saying that religious (or spiritual) people are evil, we're saying religion is an evil, a corrupting force. Well, I am.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 04:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure you can dissociate the two so easily.
by Lynch on Wed Oct 20th, 2010 at 04:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently you can't, or won't.

Your comment above starts with "Monotheism IS A BROAD CATEGORY", "Christianity IS ANOTHER BROAD CATEGORY", but by the next sentence you are saying "THE MONOTHEISTS" and "THE CHRISTIANS".

This seems to be so you can go on pretending that, when eurogreen says "monotheism is a source of evil" (which is a debatable point concerning a system of religious thought), he is attacking you personally as a Christian.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 21st, 2010 at 03:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by the next sentence you are saying "THE MONOTHEISTS" and "THE CHRISTIANS"

No. I said: "THE MONOTHEISTS" OR "THE CHRISTIANS".

by Lynch on Thu Oct 21st, 2010 at 04:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL.

Dumbfounded by so much bad faith AND/OR stupidity.

Will waste no more time on you.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 22nd, 2010 at 04:49:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Hate the sin, love the sinner"

Ring any bells?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Oct 21st, 2010 at 01:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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