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"If all the reasons to believe that the entity exists at all are internal to the ideology, then the entity is internal to the ideology as well."

Yes, but this was also our angle of discussion.
To put it more clearly: someone who adheres to a religion, usually disposes of an absolute reference point, his god, which, to him, is exterior to anything else - physical world, the society around him, even the dogma of his religion. He has this by the very nature of the religion.
To you, of course, this is not true, but it is not you who matters, because you, JakeS, are absolutely irrelevant to a faithful person. Religion-wise, of course :)

"That's the topic under discussion because that's the main value that ideology provides"

Not at all. You also say further down that I made my ideology clear before. I might have said things here and there, but that has absolutely nothing at all to do with this discussion. I dare you prove the slightest ideological influence of my arguments. Maybe you're one of those who believes everyone is always inside some ideology because that is the human nature. I for one don't believe that to be true, so do bring forth your proof, or forever remain silent! :)

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 11:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To put it more clearly: someone who adheres to a religion, usually disposes of an absolute reference point, his god, which, to him, is exterior to anything else

That is a problem with his understanding (or lack thereof) of the structure and nature of his belief system, not a statement about the reality of the structure and nature of his belief system.

You also say further down that I made my ideology clear before.

No, you have made your beliefs very clear through your policy prescriptions. Those beliefs don't rise to the level of consistency and coherence I expect from an ideology.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 12:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"The advantage of encarnating your view of the world through a coherent religion, is that it provides you with the archimedean reference point, its god-founder, exterior to the system, and so help obtain a purer (since external) view of what your other beliefs and every day life codes are."

this is the origin of this thread, and it is about the personal view of the faithful, not about some objective reality.

the last part of your post is a completely useless ad-personam, for which you are awarded a 2.

cheers

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Sun Oct 31st, 2010 at 08:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It does not provide him with an external reference point. It just allows him to pretend that his internal axioms are more valid than the internal axioms of any other ideology.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Nov 1st, 2010 at 08:13:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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